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Old December 12 2013, 07:02 PM   #496
Anwar
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Spider-Man's strength kind of fluctuates, but he usually always manages to clobber Wolverine every time they have a fight, and he took out the entire X-men team in "Secret Wars" except for Xavier.

He's pretty tough, even discounting his intelligence.
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Old December 12 2013, 08:13 PM   #497
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Spider-Man is very strong. He's supposed to have the proportional strength and agility of a spider, so he can lift many times his own weight, and can leap three stories from a standing start. He also has unyielding determination and the psychological ability to push himself past his physical limits, making him effectively even stronger when he really, really needs to be.
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Old December 12 2013, 08:59 PM   #498
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

I've heard that a spider can lift 170 times its body weight. Given that, I would have placed Spider-Man's strength (given a weight in the 150-200 lb range) to allow him to lift 25500 to 34000 lbs (12-17 tons). I guess, doing the math, 20 tons isn't dramatically different from that. I think what bothered me is he was listed as being about the same as Doc Oc, when I figured Octavius would be heads and shoulders above him.
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Old December 12 2013, 09:10 PM   #499
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

According to the early, Stan Lee-written Spidey comics, the proportional strength of a spider enabled him to lift 40 times his weight--possibly the best-defined example of super strength in comics at the time. According to the 1980s versions of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, he could lift about 10 tons, which would be more than double 40 times his weight...though one might explain that as being the result of muscle-building exercise over the years.

Also according to the OHOTMU, a typical Asgardian male could lift 35 tons, as could Loki. Thor was substantially stronger than the typical Asgardian.

I don't get the impression that Loki or Asgardians in general are supposed to be quite that strong in the MCU, but it's hard to tell.
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Old December 12 2013, 09:34 PM   #500
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
I don't get the impression that Loki or Asgardians in general are supposed to be quite that strong in the MCU, but it's hard to tell.
Thor was able to hold his own against the Hulk, though he needed Mjolnir's aid to do so. And Hulk Is Strongest There Is, according to a reputable source.
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Old December 12 2013, 11:06 PM   #501
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

I wasn't referring specifically to Thor, since he's unusually strong even by Asgardian standards in the comics. His strength level in the MCU is consistent with what it is the comics, putting him in the same class as the Hulk. But there's been no clear indication of how strong Loki or general Asgardians are supposed to be in the MCU.
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Old December 12 2013, 11:39 PM   #502
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

We saw Peter MacNicol's Asgardian character bend a metal knife and snap off handcuffs like they were brittle plastic in a recent Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episode. And he was just a "normal" Asgardian.
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Old December 12 2013, 11:45 PM   #503
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
But there's been no clear indication of how strong Loki or general Asgardians are supposed to be in the MCU.
Heimdall was able to crash a Dark Elf ship just by sticking his sword into its hull twice -- and another one of those same ships was durable enough to smash apart heavy stone columns and statuary without taking significant damage. So while it's safe to say the sword itself must've been pretty extraordinary to do that much damage, Heimdall still needed to be strong enough to drive it through such a resilient hull. He also takes an explosion to the face and just looks vaguely annoyed, and then jumps about 30 feet or thereabouts to land on his feet on the Bifrost. So yeah, I'd say he's fairly superhuman.
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Old December 13 2013, 12:02 AM   #504
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
Bad Bishop wrote: View Post
Not to belabor the point, but if Cap were superhuman would he have been so soundly bested in his brief fight with Loki?
What? It's not like there are only two settings, human and superhuman. There's quite a lot of difference between human power level and Asgardian power level, and while Cap's a bit above human level, he's still far below Asgardian levels, let alone Hulk level.

According to Marvel's strength scale, Cap is in the low superhuman range, able to lift somewhere between 1000 pounds and 1 ton. Loki is in the 50-ton range. So Loki's anywhere from 50 to 100 times stronger than Cap, who is in turn maybe around 2-4 times stronger than a peak athlete.

I couldn't find the scan but in the Bucky Barnes-Captain America run; Bucky remarks that Steve was 3x stronger and faster than he was. Bucky who as Winter Soldier and Captain America was considered a peak human.

This was back in the Death of Captain America arc. Issue #34.

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Old December 13 2013, 12:18 AM   #505
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
But there's been no clear indication of how strong Loki or general Asgardians are supposed to be in the MCU.
Heimdall was able to crash a Dark Elf ship just by sticking his sword into its hull twice -- and another one of those same ships was durable enough to smash apart heavy stone columns and statuary without taking significant damage. So while it's safe to say the sword itself must've been pretty extraordinary to do that much damage, Heimdall still needed to be strong enough to drive it through such a resilient hull. He also takes an explosion to the face and just looks vaguely annoyed, and then jumps about 30 feet or thereabouts to land on his feet on the Bifrost. So yeah, I'd say he's fairly superhuman.
Heimdall actually used two long knives he keeps on the back of his belt and yes Asgardians are well considered to be all superhuman, with denser bones as well.
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Old December 13 2013, 12:41 AM   #506
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Also, according to the 2nd edition of TOHOFMU, Thor and angry Hulk were both in the vague "Class 100" category, which meant they could lift somewhere in excess of 100 tons.

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
We saw Peter MacNicol's Asgardian character bend a metal knife and snap off handcuffs like they were brittle plastic in a recent Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episode. And he was just a "normal" Asgardian.
Ah, yes...forgot about that example.

Christopher wrote: View Post
So yeah, I'd say he's fairly superhuman.
Never said MCU Asgardians weren't...it's just not clear if they're "bench press 35 tons" superhuman.
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Old December 13 2013, 12:45 AM   #507
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

^I think that's implicit. If Heimdall's muscle power could destroy a class of ship that was untroubled by repeated collisions with thick marble columns, it stands to reason that Heimdall's muscles are more than strong enough to shatter stone.
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Old December 13 2013, 12:51 AM   #508
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

I'd say that's a little vague to hang a specific bench-press strength on. Again, nobody's disputing that they're superhumanly strong, but exactly how superhumanly strong is unclear until we start seeing them lifting specific objects.
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Old December 13 2013, 01:01 AM   #509
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Do we need an exact figure? The point, as I understood it, was simply to establish whether a typical combat-trained Asgardian such as Loki was significantly beyond the physical strength of Captain America.
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Old December 13 2013, 01:09 AM   #510
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

That we don't have an exact figure has been my argument all along...but when I said:

The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
it's just not clear if they're "bench press 35 tons" superhuman.
...you replied:

Christopher wrote: View Post
^I think that's implicit.
If you're now saying that it's not clear exactly how superhumanly strong they are, then we agree. But you didn't seem to be agreeing with me before.
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