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Old April 2 2013, 06:09 AM   #1996
Dorian Thompson
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

I loved the finale. PLenty of people loved it. TWD is a classic case of the internet community not being the gospel of how the show is perceived. I know so many fans, few of whom go on line regularly to post about it. They all love the characterization. It's the fact that it's not all zombie attacks that they love. That's why the show does so well in the ratings. Sure, the MTV attention span crowd thinks it's boring but who cares?

At the risk of sounding shippy, I wonder if Rick and Michonne will become lovers. They don't neceassarily have to be sappy and in love. They've got a surprisingly nice chemistry.
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Old April 2 2013, 08:20 AM   #1997
Takeru
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
They all love the characterization. It's the fact that it's not all zombie attacks that they love. That's why the show does so well in the ratings. Sure, the MTV attention span crowd thinks it's boring but who cares?
I certainly don't care about your superior attitude and dismissing critics of the show as the "MTV attention span crowd".

Of course you're right that the internet community is not the gospel, but neither is the group of people you meet in real life.

I don't need zombie action all the time, I like good characterization and talky scenes but the Walking Dead doesn't offer that most of the time.
My favorite scenes of sundays third season premiere of Game of Thrones are people sitting at tables and talking to each other, almost the entire episode consisted of people sitting, standing or walking and talking to each other and it was awesome from start to finish.
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Old April 2 2013, 08:24 AM   #1998
Dorian Thompson
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Yeah, you read posts on a board at imdb about TWD and see if you don't get a little dismissive. I have some legitimate gripes about the show myself, but yes....some of the critiques I've read are missing the point for some, IMO, very superficial reasons. Mr. "nobody would fuck after the apocalypse because girls couldn't get Brazilian waxes" came from that board. It's like a car wreck you can't look away from.
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Old April 2 2013, 01:12 PM   #1999
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
I loved the finale. PLenty of people loved it. TWD is a classic case of the internet community not being the gospel of how the show is perceived. I know so many fans, few of whom go on line regularly to post about it. They all love the characterization. It's the fact that it's not all zombie attacks that they love. That's why the show does so well in the ratings. Sure, the MTV attention span crowd thinks it's boring but who cares?
You should care, because this is not the other AMC series--it is a horror series. It would not exist without the gruesome main subject of cannibal dead people. Reduce that, and one may as well watch any other cable drama. It makes one wonder why they (not you) seem to want TWD to be something it is not--almost as though they really resent fantasy concepts so much, that they want the series to be just another talking head show.

There's plenty of that all over TV without TWD becoming just another face in that crowd.

At the risk of sounding shippy, I wonder if Rick and Michonne will become lovers. They don't neceassarily have to be sappy and in love. They've got a surprisingly nice chemistry.
Anything is possible, but I see them becoming close war /best friends--like his growing relationship with Daryl.
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Old April 2 2013, 03:21 PM   #2000
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
I loved the finale. PLenty of people loved it. TWD is a classic case of the internet community not being the gospel of how the show is perceived. I know so many fans, few of whom go on line regularly to post about it. They all love the characterization. It's the fact that it's not all zombie attacks that they love. That's why the show does so well in the ratings. Sure, the MTV attention span crowd thinks it's boring but who cares?
You should care, because this is not the other AMC series--it is a horror series. It would not exist without the gruesome main subject of cannibal dead people. Reduce that, and one may as well watch any other cable drama. It makes one wonder why they (not you) seem to want TWD to be something it is not--almost as though they really resent fantasy concepts so much, that they want the series to be just another talking head show.

There's plenty of that all over TV without TWD becoming just another face in that crowd.

At the risk of sounding shippy, I wonder if Rick and Michonne will become lovers. They don't neceassarily have to be sappy and in love. They've got a surprisingly nice chemistry.
Anything is possible, but I see them becoming close war /best friends--like his growing relationship with Daryl.
There are plenty of zombie attacks. This year we started seeing people using the zombies for their own needs. I found that pretty interesting. While I'd agree we need the zombies for it to qualify as a zombie show, it would get boring if it was nothing but zombies attacking all the time. It's no fun if we don't jump a little at the zombies.
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Old April 2 2013, 04:11 PM   #2001
Takeru
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Yeah, you read posts on a board at imdb about TWD and see if you don't get a little dismissive.
Blergh, I had no idea you were talking about the imdb boards, they're almost as bad as youtube comments. You should have mentioned that earlier, a superior attitude towards many people posting there is healthy and completely justified.

I still didn't like the finale and that is primarily the show's fault, they teased the conflict between the prison and Woodbury almost the entire season and then it fizzled out like that. They did the whole "27 people die, guess who!" thing on twitter, knowing that people would assume a big fight between the groups and many named victims, not the governor going super crazy and killing a bunch of extras.

I read the Kirkman interview on tvline.com and I really don't agree with him about Andrea when he defends her by saying she didn't have all the information the audience had regarding the governor. You didn't need all the information to know he's a wacko, Michonne realized it very quickly and Andrea just ignored it all. That we never saw much of Michonne and Andrea's friendship still annoys me, they were supposed to be very close but shared almost no screentime, everything happened during the off season. In universe Andrea spend more time with Michonne than with the entire Atlanta group during the first two seasons and we didn't get to see it. I think it would have been better if Andrea and Michonne had only come to Woodbury during the second half of the season, spending the first half surviving alone and being awesome.

The timeskip worked for Rick's group, we knew the characters and how they interacted before, so seeing them again after a few months acting slightly differently was really interesting.

I think one of the reasons they killed off Andrea was because they really didn't need her anymore, by separating her from the main group for the entire season she became expendable, the show had already moved on from her being a part of the main group.
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Old April 2 2013, 04:33 PM   #2002
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

I am wondering if Carl attitude is permanently hardened now, think about it, put down Shane, put down his own mom, killed a young teen (non-walker), and is defying his dad more than ever.
Hershal is worried about him. It will be interesting to see if the writers turn him into a mini-Merle or mini-Shane. It seems the groups always has to have 1, and maybe Carl is it. But now that they are moving to a more democratic style leadership it won't matter, the adults can always outvote a kid.

If they do move Carl to be a bratty rebel, I like the younger Carl better, nobody likes a young, disrespectful punk. I really hope the writers don't turn into that punk, because until now I really liked Carl as a character, but now I am on the line next season will see what way it breaks.
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Old April 2 2013, 05:41 PM   #2003
Dorian Thompson
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Blergh, I had no idea you were talking about the imdb boards, they're almost as bad as youtube comments. You should have mentioned that earlier, a superior attitude towards many people posting there is healthy and completely justified.

I still didn't like the finale and that is primarily the show's fault, they teased the conflict between the prison and Woodbury almost the entire season and then it fizzled out like that. They did the whole "27 people die, guess who!" thing on twitter, knowing that people would assume a big fight between the groups and many named victims, not the governor going super crazy and killing a bunch of extras.
It's copacetic. I understand where you're coming from. Perhaps I was so impressed that they killed off another main character instead of only extras that I'm easy to please. I did like the teasing of how bad Carl might become.

Anything is possible, but I see them becoming close war /best friends--like his growing relationship with Daryl.
That would work, too. Well developed friendships always strengthen a show. It might be nice to see a woman get in on that action, so to speak. The best friendships are always between the male characters. The Rick/Herschel mentor dynamic adds something positive. Rick and Daryl being close could add a great deal as well. Rick/Michonne as comrades in arms who'll fight to the death for one another--why not?
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Old April 2 2013, 09:50 PM   #2004
Mojochi
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Blue_Trek wrote: View Post
I am wondering if Carl attitude is permanently hardened now, think about it, put down Shane, put down his own mom, killed a young teen (non-walker), and is defying his dad more than ever.
Hershal is worried about him. It will be interesting to see if the writers turn him into a mini-Merle or mini-Shane. It seems the groups always has to have 1, and maybe Carl is it. But now that they are moving to a more democratic style leadership it won't matter, the adults can always outvote a kid.

If they do move Carl to be a bratty rebel, I like the younger Carl better, nobody likes a young, disrespectful punk. I really hope the writers don't turn into that punk, because until now I really liked Carl as a character, but now I am on the line next season will see what way it breaks.
I don't mind a little conflictual behavior like that going on. It's clear the crux of the show is on people trying to hang onto their humanity in an inhumane world where desensitization to violence is rampant.

Maybe Carl stays hard & cold. Maybe he worsens, or maybe he has a turn around. It'll be interesting to see how they work it, especially since he's no longer the only person his age in the group. None of those sheltered Woodbury kids will be anything like Carl. That'll make for interesting events as well

Will Carl be treated as an adult voice in the democracy even though there's plenty of kids now who probably won't be?

I'll be cool with most anything, just as long as no one picks up the "Too stupid" mantle left empty by Andrea. If characters constantly make moronic choices or take stupid actions, it should cost them, like it eventually did with Andrea
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Old April 2 2013, 10:30 PM   #2005
Mister Fandango
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

I just don't understand it.

Of all the characters on the show, Carl is the only one who's adapted to the new world and continued to be a good person overall. The kid he killed deserved his fate; not only did he fail to follow the instructions of three gunmen in a time of war, but he was acting in a threatening manner. It was clear he was going to try to pull something, seeing Carl as an easy target, and Carl -- rightfully -- pulled the trigger in order to protect Beth, Herschell, and his sister, all of whom were placed under his protection. If a fight between the two broke out, there was no way Carl could triumph physically, so pulling the trigger was his only option. There's not even any room for a valid argument against him doing so aside from the writer's trying to force the issue via Herschell's inane "killed him in cold blood" bull.

Just take at look at what he did when he discovered Tyrese's group. He didn't go all psychopath and murder them, and he certainly didn't leave them for dead with the zombies. He brought them back to the safe area and put them in "protective custody" until his father returned in order to deal with them. He even talked with them like a reasonable human being, explaining why he did it, and offering them amenities for the duration.

When he killed Shane, he did it to protect his father. When he killed his mother, he did it to take her out of her misery. And the few other times he offered a solution to a problem, is what a completely rational and sensible plan. A bit cold compared to our non-apocalyptic views, but completely understandable considering the world he's in now.

He's fully accepted what the world has turned into and is dealing with it far better than anyone else on the show. And he sure as hell isn't a psychopath like Merle or the Governor, or even the Governor's cronies (one of which, at least, also seems to be more rational about the situation).

Daryl's about the only one close to Carl's level of acceptance, and even he is still holding on to hope of the way things were a little. Carl's just put the past in the past and is doing his best -- as a friggin' kid no less -- to keep his "tribe" alive.
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Old April 2 2013, 10:35 PM   #2006
SonOfMogh
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
I just don't understand it.

Of all the characters on the show, Carl is the only one who's adapted to the new world and continued to be a good person overall. The kid he killed deserved his fate; not only did he fail to follow the instructions of three gunmen in a time of war, but he was acting in a threatening manner. It was clear he was going to try to pull something, seeing Carl as an easy target, and Carl -- rightfully -- pulled the trigger in order to protect Beth, Herschell, and his sister, all of whom were placed under his protection. If a fight between the two broke out, there was no way Carl could triumph physically, so pulling the trigger was his only option. There's not even any room for a valid argument against him doing so aside from the writer's trying to force the issue via Herschell's inane "killed him in cold blood" bull.

Just take at look at what he did when he discovered Tyrese's group. He didn't go all psychopath and murder them, and he certainly didn't leave them for dead with the zombies. He brought them back to the safe area and put them in "protective custody" until his father returned in order to deal with them. He even talked with them like a reasonable human being, explaining why he did it, and offering them amenities for the duration.

When he killed Shane, he did it to protect his father. When he killed his mother, he did it to take her out of her misery. And the few other times he offered a solution to a problem, is what a completely rational and sensible plan. A bit cold compared to our non-apocalyptic views, but completely understandable considering the world he's in now.

He's fully accepted what the world has turned into and is dealing with it far better than anyone else on the show. And he sure as hell isn't a psychopath like Merle or the Governor, or even the Governor's cronies (one of which, at least, also seems to be more rational about the situation).

Daryl's about the only one close to Carl's level of acceptance, and even he is still holding on to hope of the way things were a little. Carl's just put the past in the past and is doing his best -- as a friggin' kid no less -- to keep his "tribe" alive.
Truly brilliant post
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Old April 2 2013, 10:38 PM   #2007
Sindatur
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Nicely laid out Mister Fandango

People keep saying Carl killed Shane, but, Carl didn't kill Shane, Rick did. All Carl did was put down the Zombie that dead Shane became.
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Old April 2 2013, 10:45 PM   #2008
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

totally agree, I'd even go so far as to say that Herschel totally misread what was going on with the kid Carl shot. He was seeing a teenage kid in the old world. Not a potential enemy in the real world.
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Old April 2 2013, 10:49 PM   #2009
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

I went back and re-watched the scene, Hershal had his gun on him too, I don't think that kid was going to take down two people with their guns aimed at him, his rifle was in one hand not even in a position too shoot. I have to say after carefully re-watching the scene, Carl "jumped the gun" on this one. Perhaps he has seen too many people given a chance, quickly turn to foe's. He has become jaded, even his reaction to the refugee's, his empathy levels are the lowest of the group now. He is just a kid, but has become a product of his environment, and it's a nasty one.

One thing this season has shown it is pure survival mode now, against both walkers and humans, especially those you don't know, and life morality has fallen fast.
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Old April 2 2013, 11:13 PM   #2010
davejames
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Takeru wrote: View Post
I don't need zombie action all the time, I like good characterization and talky scenes but the Walking Dead doesn't offer that most of the time.
My favorite scenes of sundays third season premiere of Game of Thrones are people sitting at tables and talking to each other, almost the entire episode consisted of people sitting, standing or walking and talking to each other and it was awesome from start to finish.
Yeah, but to be fair the characters in Walking Dead aren't a bunch of politicians, lords, and noblemen jockeying for power and hatching elaborate plots against each other.

They're just a bunch of normal, everyday people who are trying to survive day by day, and who have the kind of simple and mundane conversations that real people probably WOULD have in that situation.

Personally, I think the show captures that feeling really well.
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