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Old July 20 2012, 04:20 PM   #1
The Overlord
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Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

Sfdebris recently reviewed the episode "Alliances" and stated that Alliances was a turning point for Voyager, that this episode was the point where Voyager went from a show that could have taken risks to a show that plays it safe all the time. Is that a fair criticism?

http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated...review-6262976
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Old July 20 2012, 04:28 PM   #2
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

Haven't seen the review yet, but to quote Kirk "Risk is Our Business"
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Old July 20 2012, 04:40 PM   #3
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Haven't seen the review yet, but to quote Kirk "Risk is Our Business"
Well listen to last part of the review, that goes to the point that this episode was a turning point where Voyager as a show was set as something that never takes risks.
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Old July 20 2012, 04:55 PM   #4
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

If you connect the dots, this was the show that talked about how African Americans can obsess on how slavery a few hundred years ago still defines any current shortfalls to their character or finances.

Exactly who on Voyager's writing staff wasn't a rich old white guy?
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Old July 20 2012, 11:11 PM   #5
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

I wouldn't call it a turning point. A turning point indicates a change of some sort. It was just another missed oppurtunity in a show that had many of them.

The lone Federation ship in the Delta Quadrant with at least a third of the crew being terrorists used to doing whatever they can to survive, they could have had all kinds of oppurtunities to tell some incredible stories.

Instead the ship clings to the Federation values so rigidly, despite it's situation, it's almost a parody and the Maquis, which season 7 of TNG and season 2 of DS9 went to so much trouble to flesh out for them, end up being assimilated more efficently than the Borg could.
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Old July 20 2012, 11:40 PM   #6
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

Perhaps a pivot point for Voyager as it was an early episode. But i disagree that it was a pivot for the franchise, as Ds9 did alot of good stuff after this.
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Old July 21 2012, 03:52 PM   #7
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

That guy thinks he's opinionated?

fair and balanced.

Meek even.

[Brig]
JANEWAY: Nice hair.
DALA: It's not really my taste.
JANEWAY: Posing as a Starfleet Captain, selling memberships to the Federation. Too bad we didn't think of it, Tuvok. Imagine the resources we could have acquired over the past six years.
TUVOK: Indeed.
JANEWAY: I have to admit I'm impressed.
DALA: I wish I could say the same. The great Captain Janeway. Somehow I expected you to be taller. I make a better you than you.
Empire building gives me a Woody too.

Meanwhile Janeway actually became a warlord of a vituperating band of thugs and wayfarers in Void and rather than maintaining their alliance for collective power to maintain a firm stand against the next bunch of assholes over metaphorical horizon, her union folded instantly the immediate peril dissipated.

And frankly? Why the frak did she not take a leadership role in the Borg Civil war?

kathy could have come home not just as a hero but Santa Claus with a few thousand transwarp coils in cargo bay Two.
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Last edited by Guy Gardener; July 22 2012 at 02:15 AM.
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Old July 22 2012, 02:03 AM   #8
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

R. Star wrote: View Post
The lone Federation ship in the Delta Quadrant with at least a third of the crew being terrorists used to doing whatever they can to survive, they could have had all kinds of oppurtunities to tell some incredible stories.
Not really no. VOY suffered from conceptual problems, the Maquis being one of the biggest alongside the "Always on the move" plot.
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Old July 22 2012, 02:07 AM   #9
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

VOY suffered from being Star Trek.
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Old July 22 2012, 02:45 AM   #10
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

Anwar wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
The lone Federation ship in the Delta Quadrant with at least a third of the crew being terrorists used to doing whatever they can to survive, they could have had all kinds of oppurtunities to tell some incredible stories.
Not really no. VOY suffered from conceptual problems, the Maquis being one of the biggest alongside the "Always on the move" plot.
The on the move problem was there. It was almost silly that somehow Culluh's ship must have been tailing them for the better part of two years in seasons 1 and 2.

The Maquis would have been a great tool to do things in a more rough around the edges way instead of the same Federation dogma TNG and DS9 exposed us to.

Forging alliances, doing underhanded deals, conflicts among the Voyager crew, this could have been some great story telling. But Voyager's writers as a whole didn't want to expand too far outside the status quo.
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Old July 22 2012, 02:53 AM   #11
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

Chakotay raped his girlfriend.

(And transporters.)

The Kazon were still sailing about in the ships they stole form the Trabe 50 years earlier, so I'm not sure how Seska thought this gypsie trash was going to build more Voyagers, or use Voyagers database to build Soverign Class warships, since they don't seem to have any infrastructure to survive as an industrialized society. in another 50 years, the kazon would be done when the Trabe technology they "liberated" finally gives up the ghost.
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Old July 22 2012, 12:58 PM   #12
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

R. Star wrote: View Post

The Maquis would have been a great tool to do things in a more rough around the edges way instead of the same Federation dogma TNG and DS9 exposed us to.
No, they weren't different enough from the Feds for it to work right. Especially in the given situation. They'd have been better off if they'd used REAL enemies of the Federation like the Romulans as the "other crew". People were REAL differences and REAL bad history.

Forging alliances, doing underhanded deals, conflicts among the Voyager crew, this could have been some great story telling. But Voyager's writers as a whole didn't want to expand too far outside the status quo.
Nah, not with the Maquis and not with the "Never stay in one place" type of storytelling. VOY's own situation just wasn't interesting enough to last more than 2 seasons. They needed some kind of big Delta Quadrant plot to keep them in the DQ and drive the series.
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Old July 24 2012, 10:07 PM   #13
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

No, but it should have been. It is, however, a sad sign of the sort of mediocrity that often got forced on the show.

They could have started building new alliances and making major waves in the DQ. Instead, we get the most pat TV ending possible with a "we're sticking to our principles because I'm an idiot" speech.
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Old July 24 2012, 10:15 PM   #14
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

Question do we think VOY lived up to it's original premise?
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Old July 24 2012, 10:33 PM   #15
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Re: Was Alliances a Turning Point for Voyager?

I don't think that i"Alliances" was a turning point in any way. Just a very good episode. But sometimes I wonder if Janeway shouldn't have swallowed her pride and continued with some sort of alliance with the Trabe. After all, they did have a decent fleet which could have escorted Voyager out of Kazon territory.

But then we wouldn't have had excellent episodes like "Investigations" and "Basics".
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