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View Poll Results: Jessica Nigri
Thumbs Up 49 53.26%
Thumbs Down 23 25.00%
Thumbs Sideways 20 21.74%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 18 2012, 03:22 PM   #106
Shanndee
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Shanndee wrote: View Post
I just want to say that I know that men look at attractive women and yes, women look at attractive men. I look at an attractive actor or musician and express my appreciation to friends.

The problem comes from judging someone solely on looks. For instance, my friend is in her mid twenties and she was looking to supplement her income with a second job as a waitress (part time). She has exceptional people skills, works well under pressure, is able to multi task, and has years of experience as a waitress. That should have been easy right?

Now factor in the fact that she is short, wears glasses, and is slightly over weight.

She was unable to find work in any of the restaurant/lounges that are known for customers who tip well. The reason, and she was told this to her face, was that she doesn't fit the image young men buy into.

A little respect goes a long way, and judging anyone based solely on looks is harmful.
Yeah, it's one thing to say "wow, she's beautiful!", and quite another to say "Wooowee! Look at those! I'd love to play those bagpipes in her philharmonic!"
EXACTLY. There's nothing wrong with a genuine compliment, in fact it is nice to receive one. However, when that "compliment" reduces an individual to a non=thinking, non-feeling entity that only exists for the sexual gratification of a "man' (and believe me, I'm being generous calling these people men as they are lightyears from achieving the status that this description deserves) that a problem is evident.

Yoda wrote: View Post
I'm not judging the women in these threads by their looks. I'm judging their looks.

I'm sorry your friend is having trouble getting a decent second job, but it is what it is. They're trying to draw repeat business, and if the clientele values attractiveness in their servers over quality of service, then that's what they're going to emphasize in the hiring. They're not trying to judge her, they're trying to run a business.
A business should run on the quality of its product and the ability of its employees. The good news in this scenario is tha my husband and I went to the lounge that was so rude to my friend. The food was mediocre and the "service" was terrible! We left a tip of 2 cents and complained to the manager. He gave us a free meal. The "business" is now in trouble as, surprise!, no-one is willing to pay hard earned money for this experience.
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Old July 18 2012, 04:33 PM   #107
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Well, okay, privileged to have some common sense....
Post proof or retract.
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Old July 18 2012, 04:48 PM   #108
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

No doubt many of us from time to time judge people on their looks (both men and women). I've been on internt dating sites and you see comments on some ladies pages like, If you're under 5' 10" don't contact me.

Isn't that also basing an opinion on someones apperance?

Yes perhaps we as men at times place more empathise on looks rather than personality, but that trait is not exclusive to men.

As for a job, I do interviews and I'm looking for the best person for the job, not the best looking.
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Old July 18 2012, 05:26 PM   #109
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
well, this thread's turned into a right cluster fuck.

however, you've all now persuaded me that no matter how i feel, anything i say about women in these threads, or the sleep with/pals/cliff one is going to make me appear to be either a misogynistic neanderthal or a stalker - the latter impression i apparently gave to a fellow board member on her FB page with two comments i made about her photos, so from here on out, i shall refrain from commenting on any thread about women or women's photos again.
Don't try to paint yourself as a victim. If you're being told you come across that way then you need to change the way you're speaking/writing.
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Old July 18 2012, 07:00 PM   #110
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
well, this thread's turned into a right cluster fuck.

however, you've all now persuaded me that no matter how i feel, anything i say about women in these threads, or the sleep with/pals/cliff one is going to make me appear to be either a misogynistic neanderthal or a stalker - the latter impression i apparently gave to a fellow board member on her FB page with two comments i made about her photos, so from here on out, i shall refrain from commenting on any thread about women or women's photos again.
Dude, you have a long history of making creepy comments to women around here, particularly thestrangequark. How she doesn't snap at you is beyond me. She must be very patient and tolerant.
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Old July 18 2012, 07:30 PM   #111
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

well, like i said, i apparently give off this vibe, even i if don't intend to and so, i'm simply going to modify my behaviour by not posting the comments any more.

and i'm not trying to paint my self as a victim. i'm stating the facts: people think i'm making creepy or sexist comments when i don't think i am. therefore i will stop posting the comments or even posting ANY comments.

problem solved, n'est pas?
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Old July 18 2012, 08:18 PM   #112
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

Shanndee wrote: View Post
EXACTLY. There's nothing wrong with a genuine compliment, in fact it is nice to receive one. However, when that "compliment" reduces an individual to a non=thinking, non-feeling entity that only exists for the sexual gratification of a "man' (and believe me, I'm being generous calling these people men as they are lightyears from achieving the status that this description deserves) that a problem is evident.
Yeah, when it tries to make you become sexual object #220 for that day, compliments can lose their innocence and positivity.

MacLeod wrote: View Post
No doubt many of us from time to time judge people on their looks (both men and women). I've been on internt dating sites and you see comments on some ladies pages like, If you're under 5' 10" don't contact me.

Isn't that also basing an opinion on someones apperance?

Yes perhaps we as men at times place more empathise on looks rather than personality, but that trait is not exclusive to men.

As for a job, I do interviews and I'm looking for the best person for the job, not the best looking.
See, that's the thing. No one is disputing that sexism and misandry exists, because it does. The problem is that here, the sexism and misogyny is quite prevalent. Also, "we men" aren't one bloc of homogeneity. You've noticed, I'm sure, that there are men in this thread denouncing that kind of behavior.

I don't place more emphasis on looks, and I don't treat women like they're cattle to be sized up. Women are not trophies, awards, sex objects, body parts, or entertainment. You can admire a person's looks, you can appreciate beauty, but reducing someone to the level of impersonal meat for one's own pleasure, that's not acceptable.
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Old July 18 2012, 08:24 PM   #113
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
well, like i said, i apparently give off this vibe, even i if don't intend to and so, i'm simply going to modify my behaviour by not posting the comments any more.

and i'm not trying to paint my self as a victim. i'm stating the facts: people think i'm making creepy or sexist comments when i don't think i am. therefore i will stop posting the comments or even posting ANY comments.

problem solved, n'est pas?
Sounds good.
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Old July 18 2012, 08:31 PM   #114
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

A few random comments.

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
You keep repeating yourself, old man.
Repetita juvant.

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Well, I am the one with greater life experience in general and first-hand experience with the Civil Rights Era, so go right ahead.
You are also the one with hardening arteries, crystallized worl view, and inability to adapt to a changing society, so yeah, I am going right ahead.

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
This is TrekBBS. The behavior of everyone in every thread is less than optimal.
So we should not talk about that, or take exception to it when it goes too far? Bow our head and not speak up? I would have never thought you were such a passive character, RJD.

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
No, I don't comment on every rude remark at TrekBBS. That would be more than a full-time job. Goofy sexual remarks pretty much go under the radar.
I don't consider them goofy. I consider them demeaning. But I'll leave it at that.


RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Since I quoted what people have actually said in this thread, I'm obviously not setting up strawmen.
You misquoted what people have said, but I'm on the fence if you are aware of that or not.

We argued that rating women on how much they make your horny is demeaning; you said we argued it should be forbidden to talk about looks.

We argued that sexual objectification of women promotes rape culture; you said that we argued that "beauty contest is now rape".

We argued that crass, humiliating comments about women are a form of sexual harrassment against them; you said that we argued that "compliments are sexual harrassment".

So: strawmen.

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
What you have to understand is that "women" are not some monolithic hive mind. In your great respect for them, you should understand that they are all individuals with different opinions and/or different ideologies. They have just as much of a right to be wrong as men do. To pretend otherwise is condescending and patriarchal, which is the point I'm trying to make here.
You probably think you are cute, which is a rather sad state of affairs. There are women right here, in this thread. You know, the ones with the little pink female symbol under their name. They are not some vague "female block". They are real, living persons. They have expressed discomfort at some of the comments. Right here, under your nose. And yet you ignore them and argue they don't exist except in people's mind. Talk to them. Listen to them. I don't what else I can say to make you pay attention.

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
The comments I'm hearing from some of the others go back to the same old idea that sexuality is sexism.
Not at all. Please, quote me saying that sexuality is bad in any way or form. You should really check who you are arguing agains, instread of label everyone who disagree with you as "prudes", even when it makes no sense.

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
I don't recall ever calling anyone a a feminazi, but I will certainly point out prudishness if I see it. That has definitely come up before, if not in this thread.
The "feminazi" slur was brandished at least two times in this thread. Search them. And to argue that our objections to crass comments are based on prudishness is both disingenous and hilarious, considering who are you talking to.

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Not to pull the age card again, but you folks have no idea how wonderful it is, for example, just to turn on an astronomy show or paleontology show and see that half of the talking heads are women. This is major for someone of my generation, and completely eclipses any issues of goofy comments on an Internet forum.
This is actually a very good point, and I thank you for making it. The world is much better now than it was only 50 years ago, and we should thank your generation for that. I pay respect where respect is due. But it doesn't mean we should rest on our laurels and stop speaking up against unacceptable behaviour. You got you battles: you won some, you lost some, but you did a good job. We are proud of you. Even the midwives are proud of you. Now take a nap, and let us take it to the 21st century, ok?

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
I did probably say that the current iteration of feminism, like every other contemporary ideology, has succumbed to extremism and is, in many ways, out of touch with its own history.
Would you also like us to get off from your lawn?

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
That is the 1950s mentality that I am opposing here.
Be careful, or Rush will come in a huff saying that the 1950s were a time of milk and honey, when white straight Christian men were real white straight Christian men, women stayed in the kitchen, and coloured people knew their place.

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Have you stopped to ask yourself why women feel that way? And why you feel differently?
Each women feels how they feel for different reasons.
Yeah, and many of them have expressed their feelings on the matter. So why you ignore them?
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Old July 18 2012, 08:44 PM   #115
MacLeod
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Shanndee wrote: View Post
EXACTLY. There's nothing wrong with a genuine compliment, in fact it is nice to receive one. However, when that "compliment" reduces an individual to a non=thinking, non-feeling entity that only exists for the sexual gratification of a "man' (and believe me, I'm being generous calling these people men as they are lightyears from achieving the status that this description deserves) that a problem is evident.
Yeah, when it tries to make you become sexual object #220 for that day, compliments can lose their innocence and positivity.

MacLeod wrote: View Post
No doubt many of us from time to time judge people on their looks (both men and women). I've been on internt dating sites and you see comments on some ladies pages like, If you're under 5' 10" don't contact me.

Isn't that also basing an opinion on someones apperance?

Yes perhaps we as men at times place more empathise on looks rather than personality, but that trait is not exclusive to men.

As for a job, I do interviews and I'm looking for the best person for the job, not the best looking.
See, that's the thing. No one is disputing that sexism and misandry exists, because it does. The problem is that here, the sexism and misogyny is quite prevalent. Also, "we men" aren't one bloc of homogeneity. You've noticed, I'm sure, that there are men in this thread denouncing that kind of behavior.

I don't place more emphasis on looks, and I don't treat women like they're cattle to be sized up. Women are not trophies, awards, sex objects, body parts, or entertainment. You can admire a person's looks, you can appreciate beauty, but reducing someone to the level of impersonal meat for one's own pleasure, that's not acceptable.
Oh I agree, I think there is a difference between sizing someone up as sex objects (be they female or male) etc.. and making an observation that you find someone attractive.

And I didn't mean to imply all men are like that.
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Old July 18 2012, 09:47 PM   #116
Trekker4747
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

I think Yoda made a gloyu... Yoda made a gooouuulll...

:ahem:

Yoda made a good point above, that he's not judging the woman as person, her intelligence or capabilities/whatever he's simply rating her looks. Whether or not he finds her attractive.

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing and it's something everyone does. (Yoda's argument is harmed, somewhat, by his tendency to without though vote down on a woman out of her 20s, but...)

My whole problem is, that I think mostly started this particular tangent in the thread, that the comments have eroded quite a bit since the earlier days of this thread. Now I'll fully admit to not being 100% innocent in this regard but I think I mostly keep myself in check and try not to get too vulgar or suggestive when it comes to my comments on the women. (I'm sure there's exception to that, though.)

My problem here is that it was always my argument that the women could be voting not just on their looks but also on their body of work and their personality. There's been plenty of times good looking or "average" looking women have gotten good votes not because of her looks but simply because she had a great personality that shone through in her work and interviews.

What, for me, went over the line was this week's choice as we're talking about a woman known only for her looks and wearing skimpy outfits at conventions.

Let's look back at women like Teri Hatcher or Jennifer Lopez, both good looking women both of whom have some body of work and a public persona to judge. They were more than just bodies. Hatcher had the "geek factor" of playing Lois Lane going for her as well.

But over the line for me on this babe was that she's a nobody. She has no work to judge and it was purely judging her looks. (Though Kate Upton was close to this idea too, and there were some crude comments in that thread as well the only meaningful "work" she had done was the upcoming Three Stooges movie.)

That's what, for me, was the end. Maybe my views have also mostly changed on these threads and the ideas behind it but it's just no longer my cup of tea. I can't be this shallow anymore or read such shallowness. It's old.

This young woman, all respect to her, is a nobody. Known only for wearing skimp costumes at conventions. Hell, at least Kate Upton was a fashion model so she was "someone." In a line of work all about her looks.

But this girl? A nobody.

As I said above it's a step away from just taking pictures of girls at the mall.

I'm over these threads, I can't be this shallow anymore.
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Old July 18 2012, 09:52 PM   #117
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

Trekker, the woman isn't a "nobody".
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Old July 18 2012, 09:59 PM   #118
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
But over the line for me on this babe was that she's a nobody.
...
This young woman, all respect to her, is a nobody.
....
But this girl? A nobody.
....
I'm over these threads, I can't be this shallow anymore.
Yeah, you're very deep and a shining beacon of respect to women and their choices.
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Old July 18 2012, 10:03 PM   #119
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Trekker, the woman isn't a "nobody".
In terms of celebrities, to me, she is. She's only known for dressing in skimpy costumes at conventions (the only body(ies) of work mentioned in the OP.) She's not an actress in a movie or TV show she's cosplayer. Or, the "promotional face of [a video game]." Sorry, don't see how that's enough to make her high-ranked enough a "celebrity" to be in one of these threads.

I'm sure she's a fine person and what she does for a living meets her financial needs but, come-on, she's a cosplayer. She's not that much different than the 100s of other girls you'd see at Comic Con. She just happens to be a bit more notable.
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Old July 18 2012, 10:06 PM   #120
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Re: Jessica Nigri: Babe of the week #29 (July 2012)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Trekker, the woman isn't a "nobody".
In terms of celebrities, to me, she is. She's only known for dressing in skimpy costumes at conventions (the only body(ies) of work mentioned in the OP.) She's not an actress in a movie or TV show she's cosplayer. Or, the "promotional face of [a video game]." Sorry, don't see how that's enough to make her high-ranked enough a "celebrity" to be in one of these threads.

I'm sure she's a fine person and what she does for a living meets her financial needs but, come-on, she's a cosplayer. She's not that much different than the 100s of other girls you'd see at Comic Con. She just happens to be a bit more notable.
What you're doing, though, is judging her worth on her notoriety. She's not some wealthy, well known celebrity, so she's a "nobody". I know you're trying to stop making shallow judgments, but that's one right there. It comes across as "I don't know who she is?! Well then, she's nothin'! A nobody!".

Those "100s of other girls you'd see at Comic Con" are all individuals. They have their own inherent worth. They're not nobodies just because they're not well known. I get what you're trying to say, but it's not coming out that way at all.
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