"The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Saul]

Gaith wrote:

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It's sort of like when you want to propose to your girlfriend on your anniversary as a couple. You make plans to hang out, but then act as though there's nothing special about the day, and even play a bit distant. Then, when she's about to burst into tears, pop the ring. Or, for even greater effect, pop the ring right after she bursts into tears. Her charming moment of relief will make it all worthwhile.

I really don't recommend doing that

[Pingfah]

Finally saw this last week, and I thought it was fantastic. I didn't have a problem with Bane's voice, found him quite easy to understand. Probably not quite as enjoyable as The Dark Knight, but then Rises didn't have anything on the epic level of Ledger's performance. But Hardy was a damn solid bad guy, and managed to bring a surprising level of emotiveness considering you can't see most of his face.

Though the cafe scene at the end was a minor cop out. Otherwise, great

[Agent Richard07]

A lot of people are holding The Dark Knight up as the best movie of the bunch, but I preferred Rises. It adapted some of the biggest and most pivotal Batman stories, it had a great balance between drama and action, and it gave us something we've never seen on film... The end of Batman, or at least Bruce as Batman. I was blown away by The Dark Knight in 2008 and still consider it an excellent film, but for whatever reason, that excitement is gone and the movie comes off as overly talky and political when I look at it now. I also think Ledger's performance is overrated. Not bad by any means, he was great, but I'm convinced that almost anyone can do a good job with the part. It's the nature of the character.

Moving along, I was thinking lately... How old is Bane? He was an adult when Talia was a baby, so that could put him in his mid 40s or mid 50s, or even 60ish. Anyone try to do the math?

[Gaith]

07 Geese a Laying wrote:

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it gave us something we've never seen on film... The end of Batman, or at least Bruce as Batman.

As with so many aspects of the film, that was done far better by the original Batman in The Mask of Zorro.

[Sci]

07 Geese a Laying wrote:

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Moving along, I was thinking lately... How old is Bane? He was an adult when Talia was a baby, so that could put him in his mid 40s or mid 50s, or even 60ish. Anyone try to do the math?

Assuming that Talia/Miranda is the same age as her actor (37), assuming that young Talia was around 7 when she escaped frm the Pit, and assuming that Bane was at least 15 when he saved young Talia from death? That means that Talia's escape would have been about 30 years before the events of the film, and thus that would make Bane around 45 during his takeover of Gotham City.

Of course, Marion Cotillard could pass for someone in her early 30s, too, which would put Bane somewhere in his late 30s or early 40s.

ETA:

Gaith wrote:

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As with so many aspects of the film, that was done far better by the original Batman in The Mask of Zorro.

I do not understand how you could possibly argue that The Mask of Zorro is in any respect superior to The Dark Knight Rises. The Mask of Zorro is a piece of popcorn action fluff; The Dark Knight Rises may not be an arthouse film, but it's a deeper and more sophisticated work than Masks on every level.

[Agent Richard07]

.

[Agent Richard07]

Gaith wrote:

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As with so many aspects of the film, that was done far better by the original Batman in The Mask of Zorro.

Yeah, that was a pretty good Batman film.

Sci wrote:

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Assuming that Talia/Miranda is the same age as her actor (37), assuming that young Talia was around 7 when she escaped frm the Pit, and assuming that Bane was at least 15 when he saved young Talia from death? That means that Talia's escape would have been about 30 years before the events of the film, and thus that would make Bane around 45 during his takeover of Gotham City.

Of course, Marion Cotillard could pass for someone in her early 30s, too, which would put Bane somewhere in his late 30s or early 40s.

Late 30s is a stretch, but I suppose it could work if you put Talia in her late 20s and Bane in his mid to late teens. I thought... hey, Bane could be really old, but then again, maybe he isn't. With the mask though, I could still believe that he's in his 50s or older if need be.

[Gojira]

07 Geese a Laying wrote:

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A lot of people are holding The Dark Knight up as the best movie of the bunch, but I preferred Rises. It adapted some of the biggest and most pivotal Batman stories, it had a great balance between drama and action, and it gave us something we've never seen on film... The end of Batman, or at least Bruce as Batman. I was blown away by The Dark Knight in 2008 and still consider it an excellent film, but for whatever reason, that excitement is gone and the movie comes off as overly talky and political when I look at it now. I also think Ledger's performance is overrated. Not bad by any means, he was great, but I'm convinced that almost anyone can do a good job with the part. It's the nature of the character.

Moving along, I was thinking lately... How old is Bane? He was an adult when Talia was a baby, so that could put him in his mid 40s or mid 50s, or even 60ish. Anyone try to do the math?

I finnally saw Rises yesterday. I am one who loved Ledger's performance of the Joker but over all the Dark Knight was not my favorite of the trilogy. I do like all of the movies but I do think that Rises was better than the Dark Knight.

I think Batman Begins is my favorite of the bunch. It is a tighter well crafted story. Sceond place for me is Rises. I guess I liked the story better than Dark Night and it had more suspense and I really got interested in all of the characters.

[The Stig]

Immolatus wrote:

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if it was, that was dumb. Blake wasn't ready to be batman, he is a young cop with heart, but that's not enough. what if the league of shadows comes back?

Blake was incorruptible, which is a good start. Though some ninja training would not be remiss before he steps out into the night.

I really dug the ending and found it to be a very satisfying conclusion to Nolan's interpretation of Batman. To have Blake literally rising in the final shot was fantastic. I'm just sad that we'll never see Blake as Batman.

[Gaith]

Sci wrote:

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I do not understand how you could possibly argue that The Mask of Zorro is in any respect superior to The Dark Knight Rises. The Mask of Zorro is a piece of popcorn action fluff; The Dark Knight Rises may not be an arthouse film, but it's a deeper and more sophisticated work than Masks on every level.

... And yet, which movie suggests a broken back can be fixed with a bit of recuperation and a touch of chiropractics, or features the following bit of spoken poetry:

"So, you came back to die with your city!"

"No, I came back to stop you!"

[Sci]

Gaith wrote:

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... And yet, which movie suggests a broken back can be fixed with a bit of recuperation and a touch of chiropractics,

Yes, and there was never any such thing as a "letter of transit." How dare anyone suggest Casablanca is a wonderful film when it has such an inaccurate depiction of international wartime travel!

Certainly there's suspension of disbelief; this is inherent to the superheroic genre. This is not mean that it can't have quite a bit of depth and sophistication.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I preferred Rises. It adapted some of the biggest and most pivotal Batman stories,

It adapted those comic stories (No Man's Land and Knightfall) in a hacked screenplay that had no story to tell on it's own, rather than being inspired by other material the way The Long Halloween inspired aspects and images for Batman Begins.

The screenplay for Rises was a mess. It's the only film where he hcouldn't even shoot every bit of it, as he did with the others, and over an hour had to be cut out. But, in spite the length, I believe he just wanted out of the franchise, but he needed a lot of narrative to throw his paper-thin story behind, so he used those comic books, along with a lot of thin new characters and an awful lor of magical contrivances to create an utter disaster.

But he's a good filmmaker, one good enough to sue tricky layering of plot threads and editing to cover a myriad of sins, and even using those comic books to make it seem like this thin story had any real weight to it.

[Sci]

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote:

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It adapted those comic stories (No Man's Land and Knightfall)

Four, actually. No Man's Land, Knightfall, Tales of the Demon, and The Dark Knight Returns.

in a hacked screenplay that had no story to tell on it's own, rather than being inspired by other material the way The Long Halloween inspired aspects and images for Batman Begins.

Your statement is both incorrect and vague enough it could be thrown at the other Nolan films. The Dark Knight, for instance, shares many broad story beats with The Long Halloween: both detail the fall of traditional organized crime syndicates in Gotham City and the rise of costumed supervillains like the Joker, and both culminate in the turning of Harvey Dent into Two-Face.

Of course, when looked at in any detail, those similarities are just that -- broad similarities. The Long Halloween is a neo-noir crime thriller that is itself largely inspired by Mafia films like The Godfather; The Dark Knight, on the other hand, is in essence a story about how societies choose to cope with asymmetrical threats like terrorism when they are tempted to abandon the social compact and resort to authoritarianism, and about how that temptation can corrupt the soul. (It is also, by the way, in large part inspired by [i]The Killing Joke.)

The Dark Knight Rises is clearly inspired by those four storylines, but it's its own entity. The Dark Knight Rises is in essence a story about the danger of extreme inequality -- about how it gives rise to government-condoned corruption on one hand and enables tyrannical pseudo-populist movements on the other, and about the obligations of those with power to share their power and help their fellows. It is a film about how elite fear and disconnect harms others, about how formal structures can become just as tyrannical as the anarchy they seek to oppose, and about how one must accept and them move past fear of loss in order to create and preserve a society worth having. It is about the necessity of sacrifice.

I'm sorry you didn't see that, but it all seemed pretty obvious to me.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Since when is anarchy tyrannical?

[Sci]

Interesting side-note:

You can basically list the different Batman arcs that have influenced the Nolan films.

[i]Batman Begins[i] - Year One; Tales of the Demon; The Long Halloween; Detective Comics #27 (1939); "The Batman: Who He Is and How He Came to Be" (Batman #1 [1940]); "The Man Who Falls"

The Dark Knight - [i]The Long Halloween; The Killing Joke; Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth; Batman #1 (1940)

The Dark Knight Rises - The Dark Knight Returns; Knightfall; No Man's Land; Tales of the Demon