RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 143,247
Posts: 5,602,328
Members: 25,413
Currently online: 545
Newest member: Alter Ego


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy All your nerd stuff goes here.

View Poll Results: How do you rate "The Dark Knight Rises"?
Excellent 147 58.33%
Good 61 24.21%
Fair 26 10.32%
Poor 12 4.76%
Terrible 6 2.38%
Voters: 252. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 25 2012, 11:13 PM   #526
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "It means somebody *really* wanted our name to spell 'SHIELD.'"
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Warped9 wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
By the end of TDK it seemed Bruce had fully re-commited to being Batman and doing what had to be done to protect the city of Gotham. Even if it meant becoming a hated fugitive. Him immediately going into hiding in his mansion and sulking for 8 years is the last thing I expected from the ending of that movie.
As much as I liked TDKR this was something I didn't care for. In the least I think they could have taken a middle road to this by having Bruce continue for a few more years before pausing as The Dent Act really began to get traction. It would have seemed much more like the Batman we're familiar with. Hell he didn't need to be retired for the rest of the story to play out as it did.
Bruce was in much worse condition at the beginning of The Dark Knight Rises than he was at the end of The Dark Knight, and several characters refer to him as having fought "for all those years" (whereas The Dark Knight was only set a year after Batman Begins). And the news reports only referred to his return after the Gotham Stock Market attack as the "first confirmed sighting of the Batman" in eight years" (emphasis mine). So I think the implication is that Bruce did indeed continue fighting for at least a few years after The Dark Knight before abandoning the mantle of the Bat.
__________________
Democratic socialism is the hope of human freedom.
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 12:15 AM   #527
CorporalCaptain
Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: North America
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Just got back; thought it was excellent. I wish it was longer. A couple of weak scenes and lines here and there, but no major problems. A fine end to the trilogy.
__________________
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP Leonard Nimoy (1931-2015)
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 12:51 AM   #528
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Sci wrote: View Post
Bruce was in much worse condition at the beginning of The Dark Knight Rises than he was at the end of The Dark Knight, and several characters refer to him as having fought "for all those years" (whereas The Dark Knight was only set a year after Batman Begins). And the news reports only referred to his return after the Gotham Stock Market attack as the "first confirmed sighting of the Batman" in eight years" (emphasis mine). So I think the implication is that Bruce did indeed continue fighting for at least a few years after The Dark Knight before abandoning the mantle of the Bat.
That would make more sense, but the movie certainly isn't very clear about it.

And Alfred pretty much gets him to admit that's he's just been sulking over the death of Rachel the entire time anyway. And he sure came up with that fancy leg brace pretty quickly, so obviously he could have gotten back out there sooner if he wanted to.
davejames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 12:57 AM   #529
DevilEyes
Rear Admiral
 
DevilEyes's Avatar
 
Location: basking in the warmth of the Fire Caves
View DevilEyes's Twitter Profile
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Just came back from cinema. Well, I ended up liking it better than I thought during the first half, but I don't think it's great. I was in two minds between rating it "good" and "fair" and I decided to be more on the critical side and give it "fair". I liked the way it developed Bruce's story and rounded up the trilogy in the end, and the way it introduced some familiar names Nolan-style.

However, I thought the villains were poorly motivated (and in Bane's case, I'm not even sure which one of the possible motivations was supposed to be his) and rather one-dimensional (two-dimensional at best), "Miranda" was underdeveloped (which made her motivation even harder to buy) as was her romance with Bruce which I didn't quite buy (why was he so quick to trust her? Unless it was just about trying too hard to move on after Alfred's words), and there was something incredibly cliche about all the prison scenes and generally all the foreign-sounding characters. All in all, I think that the movie works well as a Batman movie ("Hey look, it's Talia! Of course, it had to be! And they managed to work up Robin into the story without making it silly and campy!") and the conclusion of the trilogy, but it doesn't work as well as a movie on its own, the way Batman Begins and especially The Dark Knight did.

That said, I did like Selina (Anne Hathaway pleasantly surprised me!), the way they used Joseph Gordon Levitt's character, and all the scenes between Bruce and Alfred. And I won't lie, I cannot ever not enjoy the ending in which Bruce and Selina end up together.

Yminale wrote: View Post
DKR is pretty depressing. If movie watchers paid attention they notice that the Batman didn't really change anything. The people didn't rise up against Bane and they never were really inspired by Batman. They are as apathetic as they were in Batman Begins except their city is in worse shape then before.
Now that you mention it, something that The Dark Knight had and The Dark Knight Rises didn't is that awesome "ordinary people (including prisoners) prove Joker wrong" moment.
__________________
Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

my Buffy/Angel rewatch

Last edited by DevilEyes; July 26 2012 at 01:15 AM.
DevilEyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 02:00 AM   #530
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Angmar
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

DevilEyes wrote:
something that The Dark Knight had and The Dark Knight Rises didn't is that awesome "ordinary people (including prisoners) prove Joker wrong" moment.
So much for "the Nolanverse is realistic".

In the real world, the prisoners would have nuked the other boat, and the "regular people" probably would have done the same thing.

They're hardcore convicts for a reason. They didn't get there on a jaywalking charge.

They're not nice people.
__________________
Just walk away, and there will be an end to the horror.
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 02:44 AM   #531
DevilEyes
Rear Admiral
 
DevilEyes's Avatar
 
Location: basking in the warmth of the Fire Caves
View DevilEyes's Twitter Profile
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Set Harth wrote: View Post
DevilEyes wrote:
something that The Dark Knight had and The Dark Knight Rises didn't is that awesome "ordinary people (including prisoners) prove Joker wrong" moment.
So much for "the Nolanverse is realistic".
There are people who think it's realistic?

Nolan's films are full of characters who are symbols more than flesh and blood humans and tend to repeat lines that encapsulate the film's themes. I love Nolan's films but they have little to do with what people usually call realism. His Batman films are only called "realistic" because people are comparing them to Burton's (which were great in their quirky Gothic Burtonesque way) and Schumacher's (which were, of course, awful).
__________________
Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

my Buffy/Angel rewatch
DevilEyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 03:08 AM   #532
Trekker4747
Out there, somewhere...
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

The Nolanverse is certainly more realistic/naturalistic than most interpretations of the character and universe.
__________________
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 03:12 AM   #533
Lapis Exilis
Rear Admiral
 
Lapis Exilis's Avatar
 
Location: Underground
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Sci wrote: View Post

I didn't say they were enough to justify an uprising; I said they were enough to establish that Gotham is not "a-okay" just because the Mafia's fallen, and that it led many (but not a majority of) Gothamites to participate in Bane's uprising.

That is not the same thing as saying that that uprising was actually justified.



I don't know how you can say the mention of a lack of work for his brother was out of left field; the film very carefully set up the idea that the lower classes in Gotham were in trouble while the rich were living large. It's a theme that permeates much of the first third of the film.
I didn't get that from the film at all so I'd be interested to hear what scenes you think very carefully set up the idea that the lower classes in Gotham were in trouble. All I heard was a thief who self-justifies by saying I only take from people who can afford it and who delivers a fairly standard criticism of rich people being out of touch with the concerns of poorer people, which doesn't go far to establishing what's actually happening - it only establishes how she rationalizes her own illegality.

As for the idea that the kid's faith in Batman seemed to come out of left field -- I think the film made it very clear that the actual populace of Gotham was divided in their opinions of Batman, even if the city government was trying to propagate (with Bruce's tacit permission) the idea that Batman was just a murderer.
Again I'd ask how you feel the movie establishes this divided opinion - because the only people I saw sharing it were that kid and Blake. Blake reveals his very personal reasons for having faith in Batman, but the kid's interest seems to just kind of hang in the air.

Is it really so hard to imagine that Bruce is a good man but not perfect? Part of the point of his arc was that he'd become so disconnected from the people of Gotham that he really didn't know what was going on anymore -- that whole bit with him not realizing that the orphanage wasn't getting funded anymore.
OK, I can see that, given how it plays into the orphanage funding going away.

The dangers of income inequality have been a theme in this trilogy since Batman Begins -- as has the fact that Bruce's life as a rich man disconnects him from reality. "People in your world have so much to lose. You're Bruce Wayne; you'd have to go a million miles to find someone who didn't know who you were." There's nothing particularly new about the idea that Bruce was in the wrong there.
Except that Batman Begins spends a lot of time establishing that Bruce overcame this issue after that conversation with Falcone - that he in fact spent years learning to "taste desperate". It's a little odd for him to lapse back into that state, even understanding that he has been devastated by Rachel's death.


That goes to the question of how effectively the film depicts what's happening to the working and middle classes in the post-Dent Gotham, not to the question of whether or not it actually establishes what is happening to them. Effectiveness is subjective; what is actually established is objective. The film objectively established that the lower classes were suffering, even if you don't feel it depicted that in the most effective manner.
I feel you are splitting hairs here - obviously I was saying that I did not think the film effectively established these points.

So the fact remains: At no point in The Dark Knight Rises was Gotham established to be "a-okay" just because the Mafia had fallen.
I think you are misinterpreting what I meant when I said a-okay - I wasn't saying that anything was perfect. The Mayor says in his first couple of sentences that crime has by no means been wiped out completely, but the implication of the rest of his speech and what Blake says to Gordon on the rooftop in his first scene is that Gotham is a wildly different place than it was at the beginning of Batman Begins in terms of crime - and I found that hard to swallow based on the events shown in the movies and the idea that organized crime had been removed from the city. The idea that organized crime could be completely removed from any major city is hard enough to buy into, much less the thought that follows it.

My point, ultimately, is that the movie tries to capitalize on dramatic payoffs for which it does not build a convincing foundation. It either fails to establish its early set up in a resonant way, or it presents muddled points so that the audience isn't sure how they're supposed to feel about what's going on.
__________________
Don't try to win over the haters; you're not the jackass whisperer. - Scott Straten
Lapis Exilis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 03:17 AM   #534
DevilEyes
Rear Admiral
 
DevilEyes's Avatar
 
Location: basking in the warmth of the Fire Caves
View DevilEyes's Twitter Profile
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The Nolanverse is certainly more realistic/naturalistic than most interpretations of the character and universe.
Exactly, it's more realistic than most interpretations of the story about a billionaire who secretly single-handedly fights crime by night, dressed in a bat suit. You can hardly expect it to be The Wire.
__________________
Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

my Buffy/Angel rewatch
DevilEyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 03:29 AM   #535
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Bruce Wayne gets locked in a cave for 3 months and some dirty old man feels him up till he can walk again.

Tony Stark gets locked in a cave for 3 months and he builds flying battle armour with repulsor weapons.

Green Arrow gets trapped on a tropical island for three months, finds a pot plantation, smokes that pot plantation and then learns how to use a bow.

Superman gets abandoned in the boondocks never to see home again and becomes a god.

Superhero trope.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

Last edited by Guy Gardener; July 26 2012 at 04:13 AM.
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 03:33 AM   #536
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

davejames wrote: View Post
Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
The whole Gotham sucks because it's a mob-rub town never quite played out convincingly for me, so it is equally hard for me to buy that Gotham is now a-okay because the mob got put away. I think the overall story ends up feeling very simplistic for asking you to accept that premise in order to have it end happily.
Yeah I never bought that either. The whole idea of Gotham finally being cleaned up once and for all-- so Bruce can be free to retire and sip drinks in Italy-- just seems silly as hell to me.

In all my years of reading Batman comics, that's never even ONCE felt like it could be a possible ending to the character's story.

You've got to cut an awul lot of corners to make that happen, and unfortunately that's exactly what this movie does.
First of all, I think it's worth remembering that this is not necessarily supposed the be the exact Batman from the comics, so I think we should look at this from the perspective of the movies along.
And I don't think Bruce left because he thought Gotham didn't need him anymore. He left because he didn't need Gotham.
And it's pretty clear he didn't think things were that great in Gotham now, he did leave Blake in charge of the cave. I think if he really thought Gotham was going to be fine without a guardian he would have destroyed the cave, not left it active with a new person in control.
__________________
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 09:39 AM   #537
Saul
Rear Admiral
 
Saul's Avatar
 
Location: 東京
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

I really liked the film. Not the best of the trilogy but that's not to say it's not good.
Thought Alfred knew a bit too much about Bane. His street sources on the league of shadows???

Bane's voice I could understand but it stood out too much and sounded unnatural in the film. I had thought this viewing the trailer and had hoped they'd make it more natural sounding.

The ending I loved, really loved.
As for Bruce Wayne's final fate I believe it's up to how you interpet it. I first saw the happy ending and thinking about it later wondered if Nolan had left it open for the audience to decide. It's something you could only do visually. There are arguments for and against it. But honestly it's really up to the viewer to believe what he wants. They include the scene about Alfred imagining seeing Bruce with some lady and at the end that's what he sees. Did he imagine that? Or really see it? I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.
__________________
"It's not that you can see the strings, it's that 40 years later you're still looking at them." - Steven Moffat
"This movie was big. Imagine how big it could have been with me in it?" William Shatner
Saul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 11:23 AM   #538
Venardhi
Vice Admiral
 
Venardhi's Avatar
 
Location: Constant transit
Send a message via AIM to Venardhi Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Venardhi
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Seems like it might have originally been intended to be a "leave it up to the audience" moment, but in the context of the rest of the epilogue, it really only makes sense if it is real.
__________________
"There is no reason why good cannot triumph as often as evil. The triumph of anything is a matter of organization. If there are such things as angels, I hope that they are organized along the lines of the Maffia." - Winston Niles Rumfoord.
Venardhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 11:38 AM   #539
CorporalCaptain
Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: North America
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Given that the autopilot is repaired and that Bruce says the clean slate program is real, I think it's pretty clearly implied that they're together and really there, for Alfred's benefit.
__________________
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP Leonard Nimoy (1931-2015)
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 03:32 PM   #540
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Given that the autopilot is repaired and that Bruce says the clean slate program is real, I think it's pretty clearly implied that they're together and really there, for Alfred's benefit.
And somebody repaired the Bat-Signal . . .

There's nothing ambiguous or implied about it. Every one of those epilogues, with Blake, Gordon, and Fox, exist to set up the punchline: Hey, Bruce is still alive.

There's no point in including those scenes otherwise.
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
batman, christopher nolan, the dark knight, the dark knight rises

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:31 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.