"The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Greg Cox]

Donald Draper wrote:

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Greg was John Blake's age given in the script?

I can't remember. The movie had already started filming, and the part had already been cast, by the time I got involved, so I always pictured Joseph Gordon-Lewitt in the part, and wrote Blake accordingly.

In general, movie scripts tend not to specify the exact ages of characters unless it's important to the plot for some reason.

"They need to kill you before you turn eighteen and inherit the kingdom . . . ."

[Set Harth]

DigificWriter wrote:

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The Joker just wanted Batman dead.

That's what he led the assorted criminals to believe, but from his dialogue and actions later, we see that wasn't necessarily the case.

[CaptainCanada]

Sci wrote:

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As it stands, Bane's and Talia's motivations don't quite make sense, I think. We're told they want to bring harmony by bringing down the corrupt, and yet they still want to destroy Gotham even after bringing down its corrupt aristocracy. It would have been fixed by something as simple a line as, "See how corrupt Gotham is? They let their plutocrats rule with impunity -- and when I bring down the powerful, the people become just as corrupt as their former oppressors! Gotham must burn." Or some such.

The aristocracy was never their target. Ra's and the League regarded the whole city as the problem, whether through participation or acquiesence (hence, Bane using the freed criminals as labour force, even though they are also among the biggest offenders). The original plan in the first movie involved destroying the entire population. Bane just turns one segment against another as part of his plan for slow destruction. Talia and Bane's actions are entirely in line with what Ra's al Ghul wanted before (amplified by their desire to avenge him).

Replacing Talia with the Joker discards the whole thematic point of the movie, the return to where it all started.

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

I enjoyed the movie quite a bit but the middle part dragged too much for me. I feel Nolan tried to do too much. If you think about he, he tried to cram his versions of Knightfall, Dark Knight Returns, and No Man's Land into one movie (!).

[Set Harth]

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote:

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How did i go from the middle of a business day at the Stock Market to pitch dark once Bats appears on his bike? Did his power gun control the sun too?

Simple. That sequence took place on Ryloth.

[Dark Gilligan]

Captain Craig wrote:

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Batman vanished for awhile and came back. Just cause this film ends with him gone again doesn't mean he can't come back. Especially if Robin really gets things up and going in Gotham as the end seems to demonstrate he just might. Nolan set up Robin, perhaps as producer of a 4th film he could help craft another return of the Bat with another installment.

Blake wasn't set up to keep things going as "Robin". Without doubt or question, he becomes Batman. Bruce isn't coming back. Blake is the Dark Knight now. He even has his own "Alfred" in the priest who runs the orphans home upstairs. Gordon and Fox are still around as well, so Blake certainly won't be without connections and resources.

[Guartho]

Catchin up with the thread, but I wanted to say that my only gripe right now is the use of patented Michael Bay Time to take us from broad daylight to dark night (pun intended) in less than 8 minutes of in-story time.

[Donald Draper]

Robin has the Cave and the suit but he is not ready to be Batman yet. Other than detective skills and basic police training he has none of the fight training and experience Bruce had before he started.

[Allyn Gibson]

Samurai8472 wrote:

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The ending is on youtube. FYI I already saw the movie in theaters BEFORE it was posted

But I saved it because it's just so good! It will tide me over till the blu-ray hits stores.

I loved when people clapped at Bruce's reveal in the youtube clip.

I admit, I'm harboring serious doubts as to whether that was real or if it was simply Alfred's fantasy.

I'll explain.

Taking into account things like the air speed of the Bat (to get the nuclear device a safe distance from the city), the blast radius from the nuclear explosion, and the fact that Bruce bailed from the Bat over open water near ground zero (remember that we see him in the cockpit with five seconds left on the detonator), it's highly unlikely that Bruce Wayne did, in fact, survive.

To accept that he did survive, you have to accept that he survived the fall from the Bat, was able to shed himself of his costume (because the body armor would have weighted him down), was not caught in the nuclear fireball, was not burned by superheated water from the nuclear explosion, and, after all of that, was able to swim back to dry land from a distance of several miles.

The objection to all of this, of course, is "Autopilot patch." Yes, Bruce could have bailed from the Bat at any point once he got the nuclear device out over water with the autopilot engaged. But that would mean that Nolan didn't play fair in his narrative because he showed us Bruce accepting his fate and the timer ticking down from five.

In short, I think the final scene is up for interpretation. It it happened, I understand why Alfred saw what he saw. If it didn't happen, I understand why Alfred wanted to see it.

[Obiwanshinobi]

In addition to also fantasizing that Bruce ended up with Selina Kyle as well.

[tighr]

Allyn Gibson wrote:

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In short, I think the final scene is up for interpretation.

I think it all hinges on whether or not you believe the top to have wobbled.

[Samurai8472]

Allyn Gibson wrote:

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I serious doubts as to whether that was real or if it was simply Alfred's fantasy.




In short, I think the final scene is up for interpretation. It it happened, I understand why Alfred saw what he saw. If it didn't happen, I understand why Alfred wanted to see it.

lol now you made me think of something funny

With Alfred's age maybe hes senile and he just thought he saw Bruce?

in reality

Guy at another table- some old guy just nodded at me

Alfred- master Wayne is alright, now time to feed the pigeons cuckoo! Cuckoo!

[Donald Draper]

There is a big difference between the memory Alfred tells Bruce about and the ending. In the memory he sees the back of a mans head. When he turns he sees its not Bruce. During the ending Bruce is facing him right away! Its real.

[inflatabledalek]

Plus, if he isn't alive: Who fixed the Bat Signal?

[Mage]

Difficult vote, since I felt it wasn't Excellent, but Good felt as it was only so-so. It's somewhere in between, but I voted Excellent.

The movie certainly has some faults, and as a movie, I suppose TDK was better. But as a Batman story, I was very impressed by this movie. Two nice little plot-twist, although one of them was a bit obvious.

Miranda Tate being Talia.

Tom Hardy did a good job. I just felt he did. Nothing earthshattering maybe, but still a very solid performance. Anna Hatheway, the same.
I think overall the performances were just that, solid. Good. Nothing that had sparks flying of the screen. But nothing disappointing either, to me that is.

As for the ending.... Some of it I saw coming, saw of it I didn't. Alfred's last scene.... I expected something more like the last scene from Inception, with

Alfred smiling, implying he saw Bruce sitting there but leaving us guessing. So seeing Bruce and Selina happily ever after... not sure yet if I liked that or not. I will reserve judgement for when I see it again.

As for

Bane's death.... So out of nowhere. I would have prefered something more deserving.

On the whole though, a very good movie, well made and put together. TDK will probably go in to history as the best movie of the trilogy, mostly thanks to Heath's amazing performance in that movie. But this was certainly a worty ending of this saga.