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View Poll Results: How do you rate "The Dark Knight Rises"?
Excellent 147 58.33%
Good 61 24.21%
Fair 26 10.32%
Poor 12 4.76%
Terrible 6 2.38%
Voters: 252. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 22 2012, 06:18 PM   #256
doubleohfive
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

jbny67 wrote: View Post
doubleohfive wrote: View Post

Lastly - did anyone else notice that Alfred's line from the trailers - "I promised your mum and father I'd take care of you, and I've failed." (I'm paraphrasing) was absent in the film?
That was his dialogue at the funeral at the end.
No, what he said at the funeral was different from the trailer. Maybe it was his delivery in the film when he was crying; and the trailer just used a different take?
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Old July 22 2012, 06:22 PM   #257
Gotham Central
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Peacemaker wrote: View Post
I didn't have a problem either except for one scene: his takeover of the stock exchange. That's was it. However, there is an obvious break in the effect during the first fight scene - Hardy's natural voice came through loud and clear.

I, too, also noticed that Gotham was obviously Manhattan Island this time. At least in the first film, there was some attempt to hide it. My inner geek was a little peeved at DC for having fictionalized the names of cities in the DCU in a manner Marvel never has.
Gotham City was modified version of Chicago in the first movie (tit was filmed here). Wayne Tower was a Modified version of our Board of Trade.

In The Dark Knight they decided to jettison all of the CGI modifications and used a largely untouched Chicago (With some scenes being filmed in Hong Kong).

This movie was clearly New York which was a bit jarring. Most of the time its not that big of a deal, but there are scenes where you can CLEARLY see them building the New World Trade Center, which given the theme of the movie is hard to ignore.
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Old July 22 2012, 06:53 PM   #258
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I
- Gotham is almost crime free after eight years and certainly free of organized crime and corruption. This a big one to swallow.
- Batman/Bruce hangs it up after the events of TDK. This paints him as emotionally weak and defeated after being Batman for only about a year or so. This doesn't ring true with the Batman of the comics or the character shown in the previous films. Batman/Bruce can be hurt, but he's resilient and perseveres. And this is contradicted late in the film when someone says has been fighting for years. So which one is it?
- Practically all the cops go underground and get trapped down there? Another biggee to swallow.
- Bane's and Talia's supposed agenda rings hollow because of Gotham's current peaceful state. It would have had more credibility if the city were more like it was in the previous two films. No one amonsgt the citizenry looked particularly unhappy and ready to stage a revolution.
I'll address each of these...

1. Gotham is NEVER said to be crime free. However it does have a lower crime rate and organized crime has been brought under control. It should be remembered though that the Dent Act was a bit controversial to the point that they wanted it to be repealed. That suggests that some fairly severe measures were put in place to deal with the crime. Keep in mind that Gotham was overflowing with crime before to the point of being out of control. Even getting it down to the normal background level of crime found in most American cities felt like victory to most of Gotham. Gotham had become more normal but it was never meant to be utopia.

2. This is one of those criticisms that only comes up because people are used to comic book characters being depicted as superhuman instead of people doing a job. Nolan specifically made the choice to show us a Batman that was at his core still a man and not a superman. Doing what Bruce does would burn him out. Remember his visit to the doctor (didn't someone write this very parody online about Bruch visiting a doctor?). Physically, Bruce is a mess. Even the best athlete cannot do what he was doing forever. The physical abuse alone would force him to retire. Bruce was in bad shape at the start of the film.

As for the timeline, we have no idea ow much time passes between BB and TDK. There were at least 3 years between films. On top of that, we do not KNOW for certain that Bruch gave it up immediately after TDK. Given his injuries, its possible that he kept on for a bit after the events of TDK and then called it quits.

3. All of the cops did not go underground, just best armed and equipped to deal with the crisis. The bulk of SWAT and MCU were trapped. Ordinary beat cops were probably sill around, but without backup/support they probably went home and blended into the background out of fear. Beat cops are not trained to fight a war. Blake was not completely alone out there. He had some help.

4. Bane and Talia's argument was that Gotham was decadent and symptomatic of everything that was wrong with western civilization. Even with less crime, Gotham was still corrupt and decadent. There is a reason that he targeted the two pillars of that decadent society...the stock exchange, where the wealthy and powerful get their money and a football game, which is the modern equivalent of bread and circuses to keep the masses occupied. Did you miss all of commentary attacking the greed of the wealthy. That Roland Dagget hired Bane to sabotage Wayne Enterprises for his own greed was just a symptom of the problem. It should also be remembered that the film takes place in the post 2008 world. The kid at the boys home mentioned that his brother went underground to find work because it was easier to find underground.
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Old July 22 2012, 06:59 PM   #259
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Mr Light wrote: View Post
But if Dark Knight became an insane financial hit primarily based on Heath's performance, you don't think Warner Brothers wouldn't have moved mountains to bring him back in the sequel?
If Heath hadn't died, the third film was supposed to be about the trial of the Joker and might not have involved Bane at all.

Treknut wrote:
The actors voices where barely audible over the music in my viewing of the film, they seemed so muted
I also noticed this.
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Old July 22 2012, 07:27 PM   #260
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I've no idea what the next reboot will be like, but I know I'd like to see a more classic take on Batman and without so many of the modern updates and rationalizations. A 1940's period setting would be fun, but I won't hold my breath.
I would totally be for this as well, but I would really, really, like to see just ONE more Nolan Batman film, because I want to see Nolan use the Riddler... IMO, a Nolan Riddler would be awesome. But that's me.
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Old July 22 2012, 07:35 PM   #261
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

davejames wrote: View Post
Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post

I'm pretty sure the movie did not make one lick of sense - but I kinda don't care. Which is funny because I'm usually wildly picky and critical of Batman stories. I've read hundreds, seen dozens upon dozens of hours of Batman, animated and live action, and out of all that I like maybe 10 stories, but those 10 I really, REALLY love. TDKR suffers from many of the things that would make me hate another Batman story (and perhaps I'll hate this one on subsequent viewings - who knows?), but it pretty much rides high on sheer coolness and the cache Nolan has built in the other two films.
Wish I could have been the same way, but for me the problems and silly story contrivances were just too much to bear. Maybe if the movie had simply flowed a lot better, like the previous two did, it would have helped.
I completely understand. I honestly don't think TDKR had that many more silly plot contrivances than the first two films - BB and TDK just did a better job of hiding them in good character development and good pacing, respectively.
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Old July 22 2012, 07:59 PM   #262
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Gotham Central wrote: View Post

2. This is one of those criticisms that only comes up because people are used to comic book characters being depicted as superhuman instead of people doing a job. Nolan specifically made the choice to show us a Batman that was at his core still a man and not a superman. Doing what Bruce does would burn him out. Remember his visit to the doctor (didn't someone write this very parody online about Bruch visiting a doctor?). Physically, Bruce is a mess. Even the best athlete cannot do what he was doing forever. The physical abuse alone would force him to retire. Bruce was in bad shape at the start of the film.
I get that this probably can't be a lifetime obsession like in the comics, because there's only so much abuse a real world Batman can take. But I would still expect him to be at it a whole lot longer than THIS.

I don't know if I really want a Batman who can only last 3 or 4 years fighting crime before he has to hang it all up, or who only considers it a short-term job. That to me isn't really Batman anymore. It's just a rich guy running around in military armor playing vigilante (which is basically how he came across in Begins, if you ask me).

I thought TDK did a lot to establish that he really WAS in this for the long-haul, and that he really WAS driven by the same things the Batman of the comics was.

But it turns out.... not so much.
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Old July 22 2012, 08:10 PM   #263
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

davejames wrote: View Post

I thought TDK did a lot to establish that he really WAS in this for the long-haul, and that he really WAS driven by the same things the Batman of the comics was.

But it turns out.... not so much.
Did you even watch The Dark Knight? Bruce's whole mission in the thing is to put Harvey up on that pedestal so that he (Bruce) can put down the mantle of Batman and be with Rachel. The discussion at the restaurant (where Harvey makes his oft-quoted "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain"), and Bruce's later speech to Rachel at the fundraiser about giving up being Batman all support this.

And yes, he chose at the end to take the blame for Harvey's death, but I don't know that I agree that his doing that necessarily equates to his desire or intention to continue being Batman forever.
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Old July 22 2012, 08:14 PM   #264
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

The whole Bane bomb plot was strange to me and distracted me a lot throughout, I didn't really catch on to why he wanted to hold the city hostage (maybe if I could understood everything he said, thank God Catwoman didn't have some voice affectation). I guess they're really into "breaking" people. Personally, I thought the plot would've worked better without the detonation being inevitable. They could've hit the same story beats with the detonation countdown starting as a failsafe when the device cancelled communication with the bomb. Were they even planning on evacuating before blowing that up?

The 1%'ers must like this movie, those Occupy guys were crazy! Or am I reading too much into that...


It was kind of neat how Anne Hathaway ended up both Catwoman and Batgirl in a way (even with a motorcycle). I liked Joseph Gordon Levitt a lot and didn't see twists coming not being too versed in bat-mythology and having avoided most all discussion and trailers. It was kind of odd not having Bane on the juice.

I thought Bruce was going to rig up some sort of gadget to shoot a line or whatever to get out of that tower but they went the more traditional "digging deep down inside" route. I was confused by those ropes though, seemed like they could just climb or swing on them or whatever. I couldn't figure out where they came from.

I thought it was strange that he didn't try to get Bane the first time from The Bat. Also, what the hell was that truck made of? It shook off missiles like they were bang-snaps.

I didn't sit through the credits, I'm assuming there wasn't some stinger afterward?


I thought it was a decent flick but it never went stratospheric for me. I liked the grounded presentation though I think that relative "realism" sometimes made the fanciful parts harder to swallow. I wouldn't mind giving it a second viewing before making a final verdict though my sore butt is telling me to wait a while before attempting it again.
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Old July 22 2012, 09:02 PM   #265
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

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Old July 22 2012, 09:05 PM   #266
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Its Talia.
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Old July 22 2012, 09:05 PM   #267
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

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Its Talia.
I think he's intentionally using a portmanteau.
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Old July 22 2012, 09:12 PM   #268
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Obiwanshinobi, Mr. Adventure is right. I did intentionally call her 'Tatelia' (Tate + Talia) in reflection of Marion's dual role in the film.
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Old July 22 2012, 09:22 PM   #269
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Gary Westfahl at Locus online loved the movie. But then, he panned John Carter because it wasn't sexist and racist enough.
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Old July 22 2012, 09:28 PM   #270
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post

I'm pretty sure the movie did not make one lick of sense - but I kinda don't care. Which is funny because I'm usually wildly picky and critical of Batman stories. I've read hundreds, seen dozens upon dozens of hours of Batman, animated and live action, and out of all that I like maybe 10 stories, but those 10 I really, REALLY love. TDKR suffers from many of the things that would make me hate another Batman story (and perhaps I'll hate this one on subsequent viewings - who knows?), but it pretty much rides high on sheer coolness and the cache Nolan has built in the other two films.
Wish I could have been the same way, but for me the problems and silly story contrivances were just too much to bear. Maybe if the movie had simply flowed a lot better, like the previous two did, it would have helped.
I completely understand. I honestly don't think TDKR had that many more silly plot contrivances than the first two films - BB and TDK just did a better job of hiding them in good character development and good pacing, respectively.
Pretty much every movie plot has silly contrivances and flaws, when you get down to it. The plot of Casablanca makes far less sense than the plot of TDKR.
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