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View Poll Results: How do you rate "The Dark Knight Rises"?
Excellent 147 58.33%
Good 61 24.21%
Fair 26 10.32%
Poor 12 4.76%
Terrible 6 2.38%
Voters: 252. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 22 2012, 02:16 AM   #196
Klaus
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Yeah, my reaction was to wonder if they were worth saving after that ..
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Old July 22 2012, 02:21 AM   #197
Dick Whitman
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

We saw a lot who did it. The movie never said everyone was giving into the chaos. We did see a number of characters against it.
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Old July 22 2012, 02:21 AM   #198
Greg Cox
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

davejames wrote: View Post
Donald Draper wrote: View Post
Its the end of the world lets do whatever we want. Its not far fetched at all. Without the constrants of civilization some people resort to primal behavior. This has happened through human history.
Well it's not exactly news that there will be a group of rioters and looters during any catastrophe. But the movie makes it look like the entire freakin city just goes "Hey, this guy has a point! Let's all rise up and attack the rich and tear the place apart!!"

Which I just didn't buy for a second.

Okay, I didn't get that impression. I assumed most of the looting was done by the 1,000-plus angry criminals Bane released from Blackgate, plus Bane's army of mercenaries, plus various other members of Gotham's surviving criminal class, who were doing what came naturally now the GCPD had been buried alive. I didn't see any middle-class Gotham shopowners joining in the looting. (Note that the judge at Bane's kangaroo court was noted psychopath Jonathan Crane, not some ordinary Gotham lawyer or legal assistant.)

Indeed, the movie made a point of showing Bane liberating and arming the felons at Blackgate, but conspicuously failed to include any scenes of regular Gothamites joining Bane's "revolution."

I imagine most ordinary Gothamites were doing what Foley was doing, huddling fearfully in their homes and trying to ride out the storm . . . .
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Old July 22 2012, 02:25 AM   #199
Dick Whitman
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Hey Greg I want to buy your novelization. Are there any major departures from the script you got and the finished film?
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Old July 22 2012, 02:30 AM   #200
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

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Old July 22 2012, 02:32 AM   #201
Greg Cox
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Donald Draper wrote: View Post
Hey Greg I want to buy your novelization. Are there any major departures from the script you got and the finished film?
Watched the movie today. It was remarkably (and unusually) close to the script I saw way back when. Usually, when I finally get around to seeing a movie after novelizing it, I'm like "Hey, where is the farm scene? And why did they move those other scenes around? And what happened to the subplot with the gorilla?"

As far as I can tell, they made the movie they wanted to make, without the usual last-minute changes and rewrites.
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Old July 22 2012, 02:34 AM   #202
Dick Whitman
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Are you in a cafe in Italy with Anne Hathaway, Jackson?
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Old July 22 2012, 02:34 AM   #203
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Kegg wrote: View Post
so what you mean is a convincing defence of them.
True, I've heard many attempts to explain the mountain of problems with Prometheus, but no one has come close to doing it, and the movie just doesn't have enough to overcome any of it.

There's no emotion, or heart, or anything to get behind in that film. Just dumb people dying. Michael Caine did with a few lines what the entire cast of Prometheus couldn't do in two hours--make me give a damn about something.

Kegg wrote: View Post
For example, Bane's plot at the start of the movie - it seems so monumentally stupid to so obviously risk his life like that.
It does, as it's the type of plan where everything has to go perfectly. But, it is executed extremely well, and certainly sets the tone for the type of villain we're going to get.

Bane's plan may have been risky and nutty, but I can understand the motivation behind it. Could they have come up with a simpler, less dangerous plan to grab the scientist? Probably.

TDKR has bits that might not make sense, but Prometheus has two solid hours of it. There are more than enough scenes in TDKR to make up for some stumbles here and there, but Prometheus never delivers anything to redeem itself.
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Old July 22 2012, 02:40 AM   #204
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

I haven't seen the film; however, I have read the plot summary on Wikipedia. I am assuming the plot summary is accurate.

I think that our contemporary developed world cities are not conducive to the story told in this film. If a major city is experiencing a severe disturbance, such as a riot, the national government will send in military units to quell the disturbance. We have seen this multiple times in our country's history, most recently being the Los Angeles riots in 1992. I don't know of any incident in our country's history in which Special Forces are sent in to restore order. I could be wrong, and, if so, can someone name at least one incident?

A situation in which a modern city's government could be overthrown and the rabble seize control would be in a developing country, such as those in Africa and Asia.

I think if Christopher Nolan wanted to depict the United States losing control of one of its major cities he should have started in the first movie, and build it from there. The director could have depicted the decay of a great nation set in the near to far future with Batman being seen as the symbol of order over the chaos. The director could have introduced a military leader siding against Batman, and this military leader rallying soldiers who have defected to his cause. From there, it could have depicted the people rallying behind Batman and overthrowing the leader. I think there are approaches that could be tested to introduce the classic villains into this setting, and make it believable. This is not inconceivable - it has happened before.

I expect people to tell me that this film is based in alternate reality; however, one of the purposes stated by Christopher Nolan is to depict Batman in a realistic setting. The setting for this third film is not realistic. It is preposterous.
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Old July 22 2012, 02:49 AM   #205
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

roliver wrote: View Post
True, I've heard many attempts to explain the mountain of problems with Prometheus, but no one has come close to doing it,
And no one can explain Bane's plan in the opening movie as anything other than a spectacularly absurd and mind-boggingly stupid idea that succeeds mostly through a colossal amount of dumb luck which he is gifted free of charge by the screenwriters (and I considered that your explanation acknowledges the problem with the scene rather than justifies it).

And understand I'm using this scene as an example. I could talk about the general stupidity of Bane's plans regarding Batman or Batman's inexplicable and completely unearned decision to trust Catwoman a second time etc. (and I'm not even touching the prison hole, which could be given a couple of paragraphs), but it's easier to needle in just one logical problem the film has.

I can roll with these flaws (and did) because Comic Book Movie, but that doesn't mean they're not there.
There's no emotion, or heart, or anything to get behind in that film. Just dumb people dying. Michael Caine did with a few lines what the entire cast of Prometheus couldn't do in two hours--make me give a damn about something.
While I found what made a number of the characters in Prometheus tick was an interesting question that it probed pretty well, was gifted with some strong performances mixed with a genuine sense of dread and a sweeping space opera scole, and also of course local-boy-done-good Michael Fassbender in particular knocking it out of the park. There was simply a lot to like about Prometheus, in spite of plotting issues or the fact the main mysteries are apparently punted off to sequels that may or may not ever happen.

And while I did like Michael Caine's performance here and have thought the Bruce/Alfred stuff the emotional heart of the film trilogy, I had pretty dry eyes throughout.

If you want to hate Prometheus and love Dark Knight Rises, fine, excellent arguments have been presented to do either. But if you want to insist they cannot be compared in the belief Dark Knight Rises doesn't have majorly dodgy plotting, well, that doesn't follow.
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Old July 22 2012, 02:50 AM   #206
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

throwback wrote: View Post
I haven't seen the film; however, I have read the plot summary on Wikipedia. I am assuming the plot summary is accurate.

I think that our contemporary developed world cities are not conducive to the story told in this film. If a major city is experiencing a severe disturbance, such as a riot, the national government will send in military units to quell the disturbance. We have seen this multiple times in our country's history, most recently being the Los Angeles riots in 1992. I don't know of any incident in our country's history in which Special Forces are sent in to restore order. I could be wrong, and, if so, can someone name at least one incident?

A situation in which a modern city's government could be overthrown and the rabble seize control would be in a developing country, such as those in Africa and Asia.

I think if Christopher Nolan wanted to depict the United States losing control of one of its major cities he should have started in the first movie, and build it from there. The director could have depicted the decay of a great nation set in the near to far future with Batman being seen as the symbol of order over the chaos. The director could have introduced a military leader siding against Batman, and this military leader rallying soldiers who have defected to his cause. From there, it could have depicted the people rallying behind Batman and overthrowing the leader. I think there are approaches that could be tested to introduce the classic villains into this setting, and make it believable. This is not inconceivable - it has happened before.

I expect people to tell me that this film is based in alternate reality; however, one of the purposes stated by Christopher Nolan is to depict Batman in a realistic setting. The setting for this third film is not realistic. It is preposterous.
When all is said and done it's still just fiction. It will not ring true in a lot of details. Nolan tells this story in broad strokes and more than a few elements are simplified to get on with the story and make it pretty easy for practically anyone to get. That isn't to say it couldn't have been more nuanced (it certainly could), but it works sufficiently to tell the story he wants to tell.

One of the points I got out of this is that it's not really about just one city. To me Gotham represents America and western civilization as a whole. And any man can be Batman even if they're just trying to comfort a child in pain. And a lot of the stuff spewed by Ras al Gul, Bane and Talia is familiar terrorist speak.
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Old July 22 2012, 03:03 AM   #207
Agenda
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Wow, the DKR novelization? How do you get a gig like that, Greg? That's like the creme de la creme.
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Old July 22 2012, 03:09 AM   #208
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

I'm with Greg, I was pretty sure it was Bane's people who were doing the looting, not the people of Gotham.
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Old July 22 2012, 03:09 AM   #209
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

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Are you in a cafe in Italy with Anne Hathaway, Jackson?
Pretty much.
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Old July 22 2012, 03:18 AM   #210
Dick Whitman
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

The idea of leaving the past behind has been on my mind lately. I am moving from Nowhereville, WI to Las Vegas this week. Leaving my old life and painful memories behind. So the ending had a personal connection. Not Italy but there is the Italian themed casino Bellagio. There are a lot of bad girls in that town... That will work!
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