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Old September 4 2012, 02:26 PM   #436
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

PKerr wrote: View Post
So there are a few things that I’m wondering about when it comes to Walt and crew and leaving loose ends.

First, how does the chemical process work for getting rid of “evidence”.
Does the process of getting rid of the bodies completely dissolve them or does it leave a vat of goo?
The reason I ask is they start a new barrel each time they want to get rid of someone, if it completely gets rid of them why start a new barrel every time?
Wouldn’t the large volume of purchasing that particular chemical raise some eyebrows somewhere?
They use hydrofluoric acid, which has numerous legitimate applications, so wouldn't be hard to come by if you sound like you're an industrial user of it (which Madrigal would be.)

That said, hydrofluoric acid is not capable of dissolving bodies. It is extremely dangerous and deadly if mishandled, but other than causing a lot of tissue damage, it doesn't do a lot to dead bodies--it certainly wouldn't liquefy them. To destroy a body, you'd need to oxidize it, using a base like sulfuric acid. HF is evil, evil stuff, but it doesn't do what the show indicates. I would suspect they deliberately mislead viewers on what chemicals do what to thwart the "let's try that at home" crowd, except anyone fucking around with HF is probably just going to wind up dead.

If it doesn’t how and where do they get rid of the goo?
If they are dumping down a drain wouldn’t the chemical that dissolves people and motorcycle parts also eventually dissolve the drain pipes as well?
They were sending the barrels off in Madrigal trucks, probably to a hazmat disposal facility.

Second, I know Walt and crew (actually more Walt than anyone else) felt the need to get rid of the 10 guys in prison and it needed to be done quickly but the way it was done in a two minute timeframe screamed conspiracy.
I would think that every type of law enforcement would be jumping all over that and Walt just created 30-40 new loose ends as each of the 10 guys had 3-4 people taking care of them.
True that the guys in prison only followed the orders of the white supremacist and his two buddies and they have no idea who Walt is BUT it only takes one of those 30-40 guys to point the finger at the white supremacist guys, plus the fact that that the authorities should be able to piece the connections together back to the white supremacist guys with that many piece of the puzzle left behind.
You're assuming the white supremacist guys even know who Walt is. If a guy shows you a fat wad of money and will pay you for offing some guys already in the joint, do you really want or need to know his name? Nope, just show me the Bennies.

With those guys obviously being in prison more times than once they are already in the system and should be easy enough to track down, once caught you know they are going to point the finger at Walt and possibly Todd.
Walt is going to have to get rid of the white supremacist guys, that will not sit too well with Todd so he will possibly have to get rid of Todd as well.
They can only point the finger if they have a name. Which they most likely don't.

Lastly, Lydia.
Why keep meeting her in the coffee house?
I get that she wanted a public place for the name exchange meet but why make it easier to get caught or raise suspicion by meeting weekly in such a small public place with regular patrons, employees and in store cameras?
Why use a woman’s handbag that anyone could easily see in?
No one would eventually find it strange that this woman walks in with the bag and Walt walks out with it? And if no one did why risk possibly videotaping that exchange?
Walt is a smart guy, why not use identical briefcases and meet in a park or mall if Lydia still doesn’t trust him enough to meet out in the desert or something?
I dunno, I kind of like the coffee house. Maybe it's the kind of place where nobody pays attention.

All I’m saying is with Walt seemingly wanting to tie up loose ends he seems like he is creating a lot more.
Nah. They're only loose ends if people can identify him. I think he's progressed to the point where he knows better.
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Old September 4 2012, 02:35 PM   #437
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

I would suspect they deliberately mislead viewers on what chemicals do what to thwart the "let's try that at home" crowd, except anyone fucking around with HF is probably just going to wind up dead.
Everyone doing what Jessie tried to do with Emilio's body, would end up dead in about couple of minutes from inhaling the fumes.

I worked with HF a few times when I worked in microelectronics lab - we used it for some etching process. Approximately half of my lab safety training was dedicated to explaining that HF is a really really dangerous chemical and what to do if you accidentally spill even a tiny bit of on yourself. It goes for the calcium in the bones, so I guess large quantities of it would destroy the bones in the human body, turning the rest into a goo.

HF is something everyone should try to avoid if possible.
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Old September 4 2012, 02:47 PM   #438
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Shurik wrote: View Post
I would suspect they deliberately mislead viewers on what chemicals do what to thwart the "let's try that at home" crowd, except anyone fucking around with HF is probably just going to wind up dead.
Everyone doing what Jessie tried to do with Emilio's body, would end up dead in about couple of minutes from inhaling the fumes.

I worked with HF a few times when I worked in microelectronics lab - we used it for some etching process. Approximately half of my lab safety training was dedicated to explaining that HF is a really really dangerous chemical and what to do if you accidentally spill even a tiny bit of on yourself. It goes for the calcium in the bones, so I guess large quantities of it would destroy the bones in the human body, turning the rest into a goo.

HF is something everyone should try to avoid if possible.
Yeah, that's what I meant. I've never been around the stuff, and after reading more about it I never want to be.
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Old September 4 2012, 03:55 PM   #439
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
PKerr wrote: View Post
So there are a few things that I’m wondering about when it comes to Walt and crew and leaving loose ends.

First, how does the chemical process work for getting rid of “evidence”.
Does the process of getting rid of the bodies completely dissolve them or does it leave a vat of goo?
The reason I ask is they start a new barrel each time they want to get rid of someone, if it completely gets rid of them why start a new barrel every time?
Wouldn’t the large volume of purchasing that particular chemical raise some eyebrows somewhere?
They use hydrofluoric acid, which has numerous legitimate applications, so wouldn't be hard to come by if you sound like you're an industrial user of it (which Madrigal would be.)

That said, hydrofluoric acid is not capable of dissolving bodies. It is extremely dangerous and deadly if mishandled, but other than causing a lot of tissue damage, it doesn't do a lot to dead bodies--it certainly wouldn't liquefy them. To destroy a body, you'd need to oxidize it, using a base like sulfuric acid. HF is evil, evil stuff, but it doesn't do what the show indicates. I would suspect they deliberately mislead viewers on what chemicals do what to thwart the "let's try that at home" crowd, except anyone fucking around with HF is probably just going to wind up dead.

If it doesn’t how and where do they get rid of the goo?
If they are dumping down a drain wouldn’t the chemical that dissolves people and motorcycle parts also eventually dissolve the drain pipes as well?
They were sending the barrels off in Madrigal trucks, probably to a hazmat disposal facility.



You're assuming the white supremacist guys even know who Walt is. If a guy shows you a fat wad of money and will pay you for offing some guys already in the joint, do you really want or need to know his name? Nope, just show me the Bennies.



They can only point the finger if they have a name. Which they most likely don't.

Lastly, Lydia.
Why keep meeting her in the coffee house?
I get that she wanted a public place for the name exchange meet but why make it easier to get caught or raise suspicion by meeting weekly in such a small public place with regular patrons, employees and in store cameras?
Why use a woman’s handbag that anyone could easily see in?
No one would eventually find it strange that this woman walks in with the bag and Walt walks out with it? And if no one did why risk possibly videotaping that exchange?
Walt is a smart guy, why not use identical briefcases and meet in a park or mall if Lydia still doesn’t trust him enough to meet out in the desert or something?
I dunno, I kind of like the coffee house. Maybe it's the kind of place where nobody pays attention.

All I’m saying is with Walt seemingly wanting to tie up loose ends he seems like he is creating a lot more.
Nah. They're only loose ends if people can identify him. I think he's progressed to the point where he knows better.

Are we to believe that Todd wouldn't tell uncle white supremacist guy Walt's name and some sort of Brief history about him before they met?

Are we to believe that Walt wouldn't tell uncle white supremacist guy his name and some sort of Brief history about himself and why he wants 10 people murdered in prison?

How would they know it wasn't some sort of undercover agent/cop setting them up?
One would think criminals would be a tad bit careful as to not end up in prison again.

One would think Walt wouldn't hire stoopid criminals to engineer 10 murders in two min.
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Old September 4 2012, 05:04 PM   #440
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

PKerr wrote: View Post
Second, I know Walt and crew (actually more Walt than anyone else) felt the need to get rid of the 10 guys in prison and it needed to be done quickly but the way it was done in a two minute timeframe screamed conspiracy.
Nevertheless, I think that's the way it had to be done. If you were Hank, and you got word that one or two of your imprisoned potential leads in the Heisenberg case had just been murdered, what would you immediately have done with the rest?
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Old September 4 2012, 05:05 PM   #441
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Well, I assume discretion is a huge part of this type of work. Otherwise who'd hire them right? But it really is reckless, but that's probably the point. Walts getting out of control. Before they had Mike vetting their contacts before he worked with them, so he was somewhat protected. But Mike put them in contact with Todd's boss, not Todd. Now Todd is putting them in contact with his nazi uncle, and we have no idea how trustworthy Todd is as a lone operator.

I can see the logic behind killing everyone in a 2 minute window. The second the first couple are killed they're putting the rest on lockdown. But I'm guessing there's a huge chunk of ego involved in orchestrating the whole thing within such tight restraints. Sort of like the ego involved in getting his meth to the highest % possible. I doubt Walt had any idea of the market value of his meth when he was originally making it. He was just doing it that way because of his own personal standards. He feels like a kingpin now so if he wants everyone dead in a 2 minute window, then he's going to get it.
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Old September 4 2012, 06:00 PM   #442
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

PKerr wrote: View Post
Are we to believe that Todd wouldn't tell uncle white supremacist guy Walt's name and some sort of Brief history about him before they met?
I can't remember... Does Todd even know Walt's name?
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Old September 4 2012, 06:03 PM   #443
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Keeps calling him "Mister White" just like Jesse did.
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Old September 4 2012, 06:04 PM   #444
PKerr
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Jonas Grumby wrote: View Post
PKerr wrote: View Post
Second, I know Walt and crew (actually more Walt than anyone else) felt the need to get rid of the 10 guys in prison and it needed to be done quickly but the way it was done in a two minute timeframe screamed conspiracy.
Nevertheless, I think that's the way it had to be done. If you were Hank, and you got word that one or two of your imprisoned potential leads in the Heisenberg case had just been murdered, what would you immediately have done with the rest?
As I said I realize Walt felt like they needed to go and I know time is of the essence as the canaries would start singing but if it were planned in such a way (a riot perhaps) where the guys were killed different ways, one trampled to death another fell to his death more people were killed along with them and so on, it would not scream that those guys were hushed up ASAP, the way it was done in flat out rampant murder IMO they put themselves squarely under a microscope and screamed "please re-open ALL of your investigations as we have tones to hide".
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Old September 4 2012, 06:42 PM   #445
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
ETA: TheGodBen has given a spotting report for the Leaves of Grass book, well done!

Justin
Well, I didn't remember it personally, I read about it on another site and checked the episode to confirm it. Walt's reading it right when Hank calls him to ask if he knows anything about Jesse's RV meth lab.
Yeah, good lookin out, regardless. At least we know it wasn't a total retcon.
Tom wrote: View Post
The book only proves that Gale and Walter knew each other. Both are proffesional chemists, so Walter could say to Hank that Gale appoached him for some work because he admired Walt and Walt declined his offer. Walter can then appologize to Hank for not telling him because he did not realize Gale was cooking meth and did not want to get in trouble.
This is a plausible enough lie except that now that Hank has found a connection between those whom he thinks should have no connection, it surely wouldn't be enough to throw him off the scent.
IndyJones wrote: View Post
Tom wrote: View Post
Hank has a lot to lose not just his job so it's alot for him to consider. Skylar will go done as an accessory if Walter is busted, who knows how Marie will be affected, yup a lot for Hank to consider. The first episode made it seem as if Walter was in witness protection, so perhaps Walter makes a deal with Hank to help bust the Pheonix group and also Lydia in return for witness protection.
I didn't get the sense that it was witness protection so much as that Walt had got gotten fake ID and gone on the run.
Yes, I don't think they give prople in witness protection M60 rifles.
sidious618 wrote: View Post
Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
sidious618 wrote: View Post
...but I didn't think it'd happen in this episode until I saw the fly in his backyard. Then I knew.
Huh. How was that the tip-off?
Back in season three there was the bug flying around the lab and Walt kept calling it a contaminant. Then there was the fly in the teaser to this episode which told me something ominous was coming. When the bug showed up again and the end I knew we were about to see something explode, and I don't just mean Hank's diarrhea.
It's Breaking Bad, there's always something ominous coming.
Mojochi wrote: View Post
PKerr wrote: View Post
Are we to believe that Todd wouldn't tell uncle white supremacist guy Walt's name and some sort of Brief history about him before they met?
I can't remember... Does Todd even know Walt's name?
Yes, he calls him "Mr. White", just like Jesse.
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Old September 4 2012, 06:50 PM   #446
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Even more obvious was the inscription on the next page:

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Old September 4 2012, 06:51 PM   #447
PKerr
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Mojochi wrote: View Post
PKerr wrote: View Post
Are we to believe that Todd wouldn't tell uncle white supremacist guy Walt's name and some sort of Brief history about him before they met?
I can't remember... Does Todd even know Walt's name?
There are scenes where Todd was around when Mike calls him Walter.

Just because he calls him Mr. White (out of elderly or head honcho type respect) does not mean he doesn't know his first name.
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Old September 4 2012, 07:03 PM   #448
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

gblews wrote: View Post
This is a plausible enough lie except that now that Hank has found a connection between those whom he thinks should have no connection, it surely wouldn't be enough to throw him off the scent.
Yeah, Hank will definitely be going back over all the old case files now. The question is what physical evidence is there left to actually link Walt with?

Probably the only option he'll have is to try drawing Walt out through a sting operation of some sort, possibly by having Lydia convince him to start cooking again.
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Old September 4 2012, 08:25 PM   #449
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

PKerr wrote: View Post
Jonas Grumby wrote: View Post
PKerr wrote: View Post
Second, I know Walt and crew (actually more Walt than anyone else) felt the need to get rid of the 10 guys in prison and it needed to be done quickly but the way it was done in a two minute timeframe screamed conspiracy.
Nevertheless, I think that's the way it had to be done. If you were Hank, and you got word that one or two of your imprisoned potential leads in the Heisenberg case had just been murdered, what would you immediately have done with the rest?
As I said I realize Walt felt like they needed to go and I know time is of the essence as the canaries would start singing but if it were planned in such a way (a riot perhaps) where the guys were killed different ways, one trampled to death another fell to his death more people were killed along with them and so on, it would not scream that those guys were hushed up ASAP, the way it was done in flat out rampant murder IMO they put themselves squarely under a microscope and screamed "please re-open ALL of your investigations as we have tones to hide".
Considering how megalomaniacal Walt is getting, I'm pretty sure part of it was trying to show off.
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Old September 4 2012, 08:57 PM   #450
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post

They use hydrofluoric acid, which has numerous legitimate applications, so wouldn't be hard to come by if you sound like you're an industrial user of it (which Madrigal would be.)

That said, hydrofluoric acid is not capable of dissolving bodies. It is extremely dangerous and deadly if mishandled, but other than causing a lot of tissue damage, it doesn't do a lot to dead bodies--it certainly wouldn't liquefy them. To destroy a body, you'd need to oxidize it, using a base like sulfuric acid. HF is evil, evil stuff, but it doesn't do what the show indicates. I would suspect they deliberately mislead viewers on what chemicals do what to thwart the "let's try that at home" crowd, except anyone fucking around with HF is probably just going to wind up dead.
In real life, there was an English serial killer John George Haigh who was known as the "Acid Bath Murderer." He didn't use acid to kill his victims, but he did dissolve their bodies in oil drums filled with concentrated sulfuric acid, eerily similar to the way the bodies were disposed of on Breaking Bad. And it worked, the bodies were never recovered, although he was still caught, convicted and sentenced to death on the strength of the other evidence.

You're right that HF is not strong enough to completely dissolve a body as depicted on the show, but it would render it almost unidentifiable except through DNA testing. Concentrated sulfuric acid (as the Acid Bath Killer used) would be better. Or better yet, liquid lye. At least the liquid lye wouldn't dissolve Jesse's bathtub like in Season one.
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