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Old August 23 2012, 02:58 AM   #286
Tom
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
I suspect at this point that Walt knows deep down that this thing isn't going to last forever, and that eventually he'll either get caught, killed, or die from cancer.

He just wants to A) enjoy all the money and power while it lasts, and B) make sure he goes out in as huge and imfamous a way as possible, to show up all the people who screwed him over before.
Could be. Though it's funny how not taking the buyout will most likely keep him from enjoying the money and power. Instead, he'll spend most of his time fearing for his life and plotting to kill others before they can kill him. If he'd just take the damn money, he could enjoy what time he has left and ensure his family's future.

Walt's a smart guy, but by this point his ambition and ego have totally outstripped his intelligence.
He would not take Elliot and Gretchens money either, He does not want hand outs or something when he thinks he can turn it it into something bigger.
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Old August 23 2012, 04:46 AM   #287
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Tom wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
I suspect at this point that Walt knows deep down that this thing isn't going to last forever, and that eventually he'll either get caught, killed, or die from cancer.

He just wants to A) enjoy all the money and power while it lasts, and B) make sure he goes out in as huge and imfamous a way as possible, to show up all the people who screwed him over before.
Could be. Though it's funny how not taking the buyout will most likely keep him from enjoying the money and power. Instead, he'll spend most of his time fearing for his life and plotting to kill others before they can kill him. If he'd just take the damn money, he could enjoy what time he has left and ensure his family's future.

Walt's a smart guy, but by this point his ambition and ego have totally outstripped his intelligence.
He would not take Elliot and Gretchens money either, He does not want hand outs or something whan he thinks he can turn it it into something bigger.
He certainly did not want a handout from the two people that he has convinced himself cheated him out of billions with a 'b' dollars.
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Old August 23 2012, 08:29 AM   #288
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Count Zero wrote: View Post
Most awkward dinner ever. It was both hilarious and painful to watch at the same time. And wasn't Jesse kind of cute, trying to be a good guest, making compliments and attemots at small talk?

As for Walt, I think it was good we finally got a clear take on his motivation. It's one hell of a leap though from how he was not too long ago (I'm thinking of the scene in season 4 where he tells Jesse how he missed the right moment to die). I also liked how we got reminded by Walt's and Jesse's early adventures by Jesse himself. In the show's universe that wasn't all that long ago, and yet, from the character development point of view it's been a lifetime. It really makes me sad. What a tragedy.

It was really bad-ass how Walt freed himself. I'm very curious what the plan is. My guess is that it involves killing the Phoenix guys.
The dinner was definitely awkward and painful but gotta love Jesse. He has always maintained a soft spot throughout whereas Walt has just turned into quite the evil bastard. I would have never guessed that he would turn out this way.
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Old August 23 2012, 05:27 PM   #289
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

I've seen it coming since even before he was working with Fring. It was never about the family. It was about HIS family. He was a peon nothing of a loser who was going to die of cancer, & leave his family with nothing to reflect HIS influence

I recall a scene he had with Flynn some time ago, after he got his face smashed in. He told a story about his own father. The gist of it was that Walt didn't want Flynn to look poorly upon him. It doesn't matter to him that Flynn be ok. It only matters that he be looked at the way he wants to be looked at

It has always been about the fact that Walt was nothing to himself, & because he had responsibilities, he just lived with it, until his life was notably coming to an end, & that's when he had no reason to ever live like that again

What Walt is & has always been is an egotist of the grandest order, & in the face of his own mortality, he chose to become the most self serving he could possibly manage, by any means necessary. It's actually not unusual for people facing death to chose to live like they have nothing left to lose

It's always been about Walt becoming the everything he thinks he deserves, & to hell with anything or anyone that stands in the way of that. We may have had that development unfold slowly, dramatically speaking, but he decided it the very day he decided to become a meth cook, & it's been nothing but carnage & the destruction of everything around him to serve that goal, ever since

Sure it may have seemed like all he wanted was a quick buck, because death was knocking at his door, but he's a smart guy. I bet if he put his mind to it, he could have just stole some money. Instead, he chose to forge a business of not just cooking meth, but cooking the best damn meth ever. His meth, his business, his universe, where what he thinks, feels, & wants is all that matters, because by his way of thinking, what he thinks, feels, & wants has never mattered to anybody in his whole pathetic life, regardless of whether that's true or not

Ironically the worst thing that could ever happen to Walt is to be forgotten, or treated as insignificant. Something like little Holly never knowing a damn thing about her father is his worst penance, or someday when he's gone, the name Heisenberg will be forgotten

He's probably going to realize that all he's leaving behind to reflect his presence on this planet, is damage

What is a selfish child, who when they lose the game, they trash the board. The game is Walt's life & the board is everything & everyone in it
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Old August 23 2012, 05:33 PM   #290
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

As I've said in the past, the show never needed the cancer angle as a motive for Walt to start cooking meth. His little story about selling out too early and failing to be all he thought he should be was more than enough. They could have used that reasoning from the beginning.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Walt should divorce Skyler and get visitation rights with Holly. That five million dollars will ensure his future, his son's college education, Holly's future, easily get him some bimbo trophy wife and a nice mansion in a gated community and private security if he needs it even when he's out of the biz.
If he wanted or needed all that, he'd need a lot more than $5 million.
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Old August 23 2012, 06:36 PM   #291
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
As I've said in the past, the show never needed the cancer angle as a motive for Walt to start cooking meth. His little story about selling out too early and failing to be all he thought he should be was more than enough. They could have used that reasoning from the beginning.
The show absolutely did need the cancer thing because of what it does for the viewer's outlook. A guy with a chip on his shoulder who decides to start dealing drugs because he thinks he's owed something is not sympathetic. But the audience can identify with a regular working guy who is given a terminal diagnosis and whose family will be much worse off after he's gone. The viewer can picture him/her self in that position, and ask "Is that what I would do? How far would I go?" And whether they would do what Walt did or not, that sympathy and identification it there, and the viewer can see how it changes as things progress. There's vastly more audience buy-in the way they've done it.

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Old August 23 2012, 06:43 PM   #292
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Yeah, the cancer is what made him relatable and sympathetic in the first place. Without that "hook," who's going to want to watch a show about a "regular guy" suddenly deciding he wants to be a ruthless drug lord?
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Old August 23 2012, 07:14 PM   #293
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
As I've said in the past, the show never needed the cancer angle as a motive for Walt to start cooking meth. His little story about selling out too early and failing to be all he thought he should be was more than enough. They could have used that reasoning from the beginning.
The show absolutely did need the cancer thing because of what it does for the viewer's outlook. A guy with a chip on his shoulder who decides to start dealing drugs because he thinks he's owed something is not sympathetic. But the audience can identify with a regular working guy who is given a terminal diagnosis and whose family will be much worse off after he's gone. The viewer can picture him/her self in that position, and ask "Is that what I would do? How far would I go?" And whether they would do what Walt did or not, that sympathy and identification it there, and the viewer can see how it changes as things progress. There's vastly more audience buy-in the way they've done it.

Justin
I totally agree, cause I know I definitely felt sympathetic for him and he seemed like such a meek walk-all-over type and we really got to watch him evolve over time....
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Old August 23 2012, 07:17 PM   #294
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

^ Also, I heard an interview with Bryan Cranston where he said there are two questions everyone has asked themselves. One: What if I suddenly became rich? Would I stay the same? Would I do good things with the money? Or would I become a jerk? And two: What would I do if I only had one year to live? The audience is seeing Walt's "answers" play out, and whether people are conscious of it or not there is a strong identification because those questions are so universal. Pretty damn impressive, really.

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Old August 23 2012, 07:20 PM   #295
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Breaking Bad without the cancer would be The Sopranos without the therapy. It might still work but it wouldn't work nearly as well.
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Old August 23 2012, 11:12 PM   #296
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Some interesting perspectives there. For me, watching a man who just wanted to break out of his boring existence was believable, more than enough of a motive and something I could sympathize with. A lot of people just want to "break free" even if it's not as extreme as going into the drug business (and some do go to that extreme). And the thing is, simply wanting more was his motive all along. The cancer was just how he rationalized it to himself. At least that's what was apparent to me from the get-go.
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Old August 23 2012, 11:57 PM   #297
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Mojochi wrote: View Post
I've seen it coming since even before he was working with Fring. It was never about the family. It was about HIS family. He was a peon nothing of a loser who was going to die of cancer, & leave his family with nothing to reflect HIS influence
Eh, I don't really buy that. Clearly ego always played a big part, but I also think early on he DID sincerely care about and want to provide for the family.

It's obvious in his interactions with Junior all through the series.

He just got way too greedy and power-hungry, and let his ego get the better of him.
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Old August 24 2012, 04:14 AM   #298
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

davejames wrote: View Post
Mojochi wrote: View Post
I've seen it coming since even before he was working with Fring. It was never about the family. It was about HIS family. He was a peon nothing of a loser who was going to die of cancer, & leave his family with nothing to reflect HIS influence
Eh, I don't really buy that. Clearly ego always played a big part, but I also think early on he DID sincerely care about and want to provide for the family.

It's obvious in his interactions with Junior all through the series.

He just got way too greedy and power-hungry, and let his ego get the better of him.
Then why didn't he just take the money from the Gray Matter people instead of all this? If he truly cared about his family in any kind of objective way, he, being an intelligent man like he is, would have to know that becoming a meth cook would endanger them more than just swallowing his pride & taking some charity

I didn't say he never cared about them. I said that all this business was never about them, & if he does or did ever care about them, he does/did so a great deal less than he cares about himself
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Old August 24 2012, 05:00 AM   #299
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Then why didn't he just take the money from the Gray Matter people instead of all this? If he truly cared about his family in any kind of objective way, he, being an intelligent man like he is, would have to know that becoming a meth cook would endanger them more than just swallowing his pride & taking some charity
QFT. I agree with this assertion completely. Being financially succesful as a meth cook was not a foregone conclusion at the time he rejected Gretchen and whatshisname's offer. If he was really, really concerned more about his family than himself--he'd have taken that route to secure their future. Taking Grey Matter money was the best odds to ensure that Skyler didn't end up in debt, and that Junior and Holly could go to college.


Walt's meth dealing is, and always was, really all about Walt. I can empathize to a point. He felt like a weakling, that he'd been walked over. I get treated like shit at my job, too, by my boss and I had this huge woman scream at me in the grocery parking lot just tonight after I worked all day when she thought I'd cut her off.

"Get out of the way, you fat fucking bitch!" she screams as her friends just laugh. I wanted to kill her. I contemplated following her in the parking lot and slamming on my brakes to scare her that I'd run into her, but it was dark and she looked like some gang banger's girlfriend, so I thought better of it, flipped her off and left. I understand the impulse to want to lash out in a huge way when you feel so disrespected, but I came back down to Earth. Walt never came back down to Earth. He lives the fantasy. He probably would have stocked the Albertson's parking lot and blown up her car when she was inside.

In the real world, that would have consequences. Building a meth empire to get even with the world is a little over the top.
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Old August 24 2012, 09:18 PM   #300
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Re: Breaking Bad - Season 5

Let play the 'It's a Wonderfull Life" game! Just thinking how may people have died because of Walter's action or in-action in a sitution that happened because of his presence. Who would still be alive if Walter did not get into the Meth business...


Emillio (Gased in self defense)

Crazy 8 (Self defense as Walter was going to let him go but he was attacked)

Tuco's guy (was killed by Tuco but maybe still alive if they were not making the deal with Walter and Jesse int he junk yard)

Gonzo (an accident yes, but would not happen if the above guy was not killed)

Tuco (shot by Jesser, but finished off by Hank, would not happened if Walter was not around)

The Cousins (killed by Hank, but would not be in the US if it were not for Walter in the first place)

The people the cousins killed on their way to the U.S. This includes the border patrol guy, the truck full mexicans and the guy in the parking lot that was shot when they went after Hank.

The Cartel Guy (shot by the Mexican police after the cousins attacked Hank)

Combo (Jesse's friend and dealer shot by the kid, Combo was dealing drugs because of Jesse who learned from Walter)

Jane (Walter did not save her when she she OD's (and could have), but also she would not have got with Jesse and started using heroin if Jesse never cooked with Walter)

The Plane Victims 170 plus? (this is sort of a stretch but really if Jane did not die her dad would not have fucked up the flight paths, so safe to say, it was still an indirect action of Walter. Also, I believe that Jane's dad commited suicide also, as a result)

Kid who shot Combo (killed by the 2 drug dealers below)

The Two Drug Dealers (this was the first time Walter intentional killed people, ran over them then shot one in the head)

Gale (Jesse's first direct kill, ordered by Walter. )

Victor (Killed by Gus as a result of Walt and Jesse's actions)

Truck Crew and Sniper victim (killed by the cartel guy but only because of the war with Gus, because of the cousins getting killed, and thus Walter)

The Mexican Cartel ( a bunch of victims poisoned by Gus, but again because of the war they were having. True, Gus had his own motivations going back several years, but because of Walter and Jesse's actions he had a chance to take them all out)

Gus (bombed)

Hector (set off the bomb given by Walter)

Tyrus (Bombed)

2 Gus Henchmen in the Lab (shot by Walter then burned up in the fire)

Chang and the Hitman ( Lydia put a hit on Mike's men, the hit man only got Chang then Mike took out the hitman, would not have happened if Walter did not kill Gus)

Kid on the Dirtbike (killed by Todd becuse of Walter, Jesse's and Mike's actions)

Notable mention, not dead but...

Brock (got poisoned by Walter, is better now)

Ted Benke ( injured head and spine, would not of happned if Skylar was ot laundering Walters money)

Hank (shot and paralized for a little while, still limps)

One death that was not Walters fault was the turtle guy, he was killed because he was talking to the DEA, nothing to do with Walter.

Thats a lot of death as a result of Walter's decision to make Meth! there is probably a lot more we don't now about, for instance Junkie's who may have died as a result of Walter's Meth
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Last edited by Tom; August 24 2012 at 11:59 PM.
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