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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 30 2012, 03:44 PM   #46
BillJ
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

inflatabledalek wrote: View Post
But Picard is supposed to be in his 70's at this point isn't he? Even if Stewart is younger.
Admittedly non-canon, but his birthdate is given as 2305. Which would've made him 58 or 59 in Encounter at Farpoint, so the character may have been older than 70 in Nemesis.
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Old June 30 2012, 04:18 PM   #47
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

R. Star wrote: View Post
blockaderunner wrote: View Post
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE. That's all that's needed to say as to why this film is a disappointment. I'll say it again.

THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

There have been many who have tried to defend this POS while overlooking that
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

Oh it's a fun popcorn flick
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

It's a loving homage to TWOK
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

It's dark and mysterious
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

It's the final hurrah of the TNG
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

You should lighten up, blockaderunner.
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

The Next Generation franchise not only jumped the shark,
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

Everything during the latter days of the B&B regime can be summed up in one scene.
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE
I nominate this for the most annoying post ever.
It made me laugh.
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Old June 30 2012, 04:22 PM   #48
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

BillJ wrote: View Post
inflatabledalek wrote: View Post
But Picard is supposed to be in his 70's at this point isn't he? Even if Stewart is younger.
Admittedly non-canon, but his birthdate is given as 2305. Which would've made him 58 or 59 in Encounter at Farpoint, so the character may have been older than 70 in Nemesis.

Picard was in the Class of '27 at the Academy, as mentioned in "The First Duty" and "Tapestry". Q said Picard was 21 after he graduated from the Academy, so that would be 2306. If Picard didn't have his birthday yet, then he would've turned 22 in 2327, making his date of birth 2305.

Even without Q mentioning how old Picard was, 22 sounds like a reasonable age to have graduated from the Academy.

So, yeah, Picard was 74 in Nemesis; which would be more like upper-middle-age in the 24th Century.
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Old June 30 2012, 07:28 PM   #49
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

inflatabledalek wrote: View Post
But they're directed and performed with verve and omph they get away with it, both films effectively grab the viewer by the scruff of the neck, stare them in the eyes and dare them to point out plot holes.
Man, I want to make a film like that some day...
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Old July 1 2012, 12:05 AM   #50
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Starfleet Academy is a four year course, right? We saw Picard with hair after he graduated and was awaiting assignment in "Tapestry". He was in the usual maroon dress uniform of the era.

The pic in Nemesis shows Picard in the cadet jumpsuit, giving up to FOUR YEARS for the guy to grow his hair back after having shaved it off.

In a similar real-life story, I used to shave my head but I don't anymore. This complaint probably is the most pathetic and stupid one in ALL of Star Trek.

Heck, even taken as a simple rewrite, making Picard bald at the age Patrick Stewart was (19), it really doesn't matter. Certainly not worth the fuss made here and in other threads.
Yeah I never got the fuss over this either. Having your head shaved is an acceptable style today, there is no reason it wouldn't be in the future as well. I've known many people who have done it over the years for varying reasons, including a plain like for the style.

So he shaved his head when he was younger, then grew it back a few years later...then he went bald. Big deal!
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Old July 1 2012, 07:36 AM   #51
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Mutenroshi wrote: View Post
Xhiandra wrote: View Post
11. JJ Abrams' Star Wa... Trek - nameless abomination.
Fuck that! Star Trek '09 accomplished the double feat of rejuvenating the franchise AND getting rid of the anal retentive fanbois.

YMMV of course...
I would rather watch Nemesis 100 times in 100 days than ever have to be subjected to that Abrams abomination again.

Can't wait till everyone hates the sequel like they hated Bayformers 2 and realized they had been had by shining objects in the first train wreck.

Nemesis was just a flawed film in every way imaginable. The TNG movies just weren't good movies. They didn't feel like TNG. The E-E never clicked and felt like a ship Picard, of the TNG tv show, would command. It lost it's soul. Perhaps TNG just wasn't suited for the Big Screen?

Generations is still the "best" of the TNG movies but then quickly falls apart when they hit the Nexus plot. Killing Picard's nephew was just stupid as well.
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Old July 1 2012, 08:58 AM   #52
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Stephen! wrote: View Post
I'd have thought after 10 years, people would have mellowed a bit and not be as harsh towards it.
Why? The passage of time has done nothing whatsoever to mitigate the movie's countless flaws, so it's not unreasonable that people continue to dislike it (I wouldn't describe my own disdain for Nemesis as "hate" - that's far too extreme a word to apply to something as trivial as a movie).

Anyway, my reasons for disliking Nemesis are contained in the following post from one of the countless previous threads on the subject:
Orac Zen wrote: View Post
IMO? No, it's not really that bad. Incredibly enough, it's even worse.

NCC-1701-B wrote: View Post
Why is it bad? because it has a car at the beginning? I dont get why it is a bad film.
That's fine - to each their own, after all. But for mine, it's bad because of the following:
  • inane "car" chase through desert (so Picard can mimic Bond?) in the wake of gathering bits of yet another Data prototype. Yes, Data was more than just a toaster but how many damned prototypes are out there, anyway?
  • our crew - supposedly the best and brightest, given they've been on the Federation flagship all these years - ignore the precedent of Lore and activate the prototype anyway. Happily it turns out to be a dunce, but it could just as easily have been yet another Lore. No one seemed to consider this possibility.
  • Romulans "somehow" - "somehow" is all the explanation we're given - get a DNA sample from Picard.
  • Romulans create clone of Picard (a clone which, remarkably considering it's a frelling clone, looks nothing whatsoever like Picard) to...what, exactly?
  • Remans, despite being the underclass, repressed etc somehow - without their Romulan bretheren noticing - build a kickarse spaceship that makes the Federation flagship look like a shuttlecraft. Really, did no one notice this?
  • Data sacrifices himself in a manner which makes zero sense.
  • But because of the aforementioned prototype - to which Data conveniently transferred his consciousness before his noble sacrifice - Data's "death" is purely temporary. Although there will be no more TNG movies we know good and well that with just a bit of Federation TLC "B4" (such a witty name) will turn into the Data we know (and may love) in no time. So any emotional significance attached to Data's demise is completely wiped out about 10 minutes after we witnessed it.
The movie has other flaws. Those are merely the ones I can (unfortunately) recall at this distance. The idea of watching that trash again almost makes me gag. If others like it that's perfectly okay, but for mine it's among the worst movies I've seen. And "Copycat posting" () hasn't a thing to do with my ability to form my own opinion of this tripe.
Throw in Shinzon's utterly ridiculous "motive" - whatever it was supposed to be - and you have, IMO at least, a terrible movie. I do not "hate" it, but neither do I have any desire whatever to ever see it again. To each their own.
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Old July 1 2012, 10:43 AM   #53
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Starfleet Academy is a four year course, right? We saw Picard with hair after he graduated and was awaiting assignment in "Tapestry". He was in the usual maroon dress uniform of the era.

The pic in Nemesis shows Picard in the cadet jumpsuit, giving up to FOUR YEARS for the guy to grow his hair back after having shaved it off.
Ignoring the questionable issue over hair for a moment: The uniform that Picard is wearing in that photo is for enlisted servicemen. Not for officers-in-training. It isn't even for an enlisted trainee - the collar is black instead of the correct red.

Apart from that, I agree with just about every other issue raised about this film (and have a few of my own...) Overall I even liked Insurrection better, insofar as the quality of the directing, editing, acting, and heck even the script!

What I actually did like about NEM was a much shorter list:

The score by Goldsmith had a few nice callbacks to TMP, which is arguably one of the best he ever composed.

The bridge was a little improved in terms of the colour scheme (the LCARS in particular after they got rid of those weird orange and purple overtones).

The Valdore (despite the crap name) was a nice looking ship, and it meant we had something new for the Romulans... finally!
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Old July 1 2012, 01:18 PM   #54
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Kuro Pit wrote: View Post
Seriously i enjoyed Nemesis. It had alot of good things in it. Though it did have some flaws (B4 for example) I thought it was a good movie, and the Best of all the TNG films.
Nemesis was the only Trek movie that I did not watch more than once. How convenient to find yet another android brother for Data and nobody even mentioned Lore in the film, it was if he never existed.

For me, the movie just didn't flow very well.

Short version: It sucked.
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Old July 1 2012, 11:39 PM   #55
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

The Grim Ghost wrote: View Post
Yeah I never got the fuss over this either. Having your head shaved is an acceptable style today, there is no reason it wouldn't be in the future as well.
It wasn't too long ago, that if a white man shaved his head, people would whisper "how long does he have?"
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Old July 2 2012, 08:00 AM   #56
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

I saw Nemesis on opening night as part of a quadruple feature. Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, Nemesis. I loved Generations after having seen it dozens of times at home, same for First Contact and Insurrection. But I really hated Nemesis. Shinzon was NOT believable as a Picard clone at all, then the whole "uuups...there is another soong android who by the way has the mental capacity of a banana", mind-rape, troi crashing the ship again, data dying, oh and if you go on and on about the Rikers leaving for the Titan...at least show us the effing ship! I bought the VHS for 5 bucks back then in a moment of completeism....I never watched it even once.
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Old July 2 2012, 08:44 AM   #57
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

FreddyE wrote: View Post
I saw Nemesis on opening night as part of a quadruple feature. Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, Nemesis. I loved Generations after having seen it dozens of times at home, same for First Contact and Insurrection. But I really hated Nemesis. Shinzon was NOT believable as a Picard clone at all, then the whole "uuups...there is another soong android who by the way has the mental capacity of a banana", mind-rape, troi crashing the ship again, data dying, oh and if you go on and on about the Rikers leaving for the Titan...at least show us the effing ship! I bought the VHS for 5 bucks back then in a moment of completeism....I never watched it even once.
Actually Picard telling Troi to take the helm after he resolved to ram Shinzon's ship was one of the best moments of the movie.
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Old July 2 2012, 10:40 AM   #58
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Hmm...if you see it that way.....its actually funny. As if he thought "At least she wont miss!" ;-)
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Old July 2 2012, 11:46 PM   #59
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Mage wrote: View Post

Fans can find the weirdest reasons to dislike what they love. So yeah, for some it will be very hard to be pleased by anything.
But you know what I find REALLY FUNNY? How the haters seem to be able to explain in detail the scenes they didn't like.
There's nothing remarkable about being able to explain why you didn't like something, particularly if it was at the time something you were really looking forward to liking.
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Old July 3 2012, 08:15 PM   #60
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Joker wrote: View Post
Mage wrote: View Post

Fans can find the weirdest reasons to dislike what they love. So yeah, for some it will be very hard to be pleased by anything.
But you know what I find REALLY FUNNY? How the haters seem to be able to explain in detail the scenes they didn't like.
There's nothing remarkable about being able to explain why you didn't like something, particularly if it was at the time something you were really looking forward to liking.
Actually it's a human trait. People will remember things they didn't like far more vividly and clearly than things they did. It works with many things like losing streaks, financial troubles, etc.

But yes, nice that everyone who has a different opinion than you is a "hater." Guess being judgmental is another human trait eh?
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