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Old August 7 2012, 04:02 AM   #196
Count Zero
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Re: The Newsroom.

I loved this episode. Strangely enough, given the fact it revolved around such a sombre subject, I found myself laughing out loud a few times. I loved the party in Will's apartment and his little, socially awkward yet lovable speech ("Resume being here!" ).
While the idea of having him be high while all this is going on and he has to go on the air and be up to the task does sound a little childish I liked it and it played out well. I liked all the little moments of hilarity it created ("Just enjoy the moment!") and also the moments of support his condition garnered from his colleagues.
It was also hilarious how he seems to know everyone and has these helpful anecdotes ready explaining why. When he said he had called NATO HQ I you didn't know whether he had just imagined it, being high, or whether he really did.
The story on the plane was good as well. The best moment for me here was Sloan reading out the message from that deranged fan. I laughed out loud.

I also like to thank Aaaron Sorkin for keeping it low on the patriotism scale, relatively speaking. The reaction many Americans had to those news, namely the "USA! USA!" chanting and the cheering as if the US had just won an important sports event, was something that I found very alien and also disconcerting (no offense). It certainly made me realise that, despite watching so many hours of American TV and movies and following the news, I really don't understand Americans at all.
Anyway, I thought it was a nice touch we didn't get to see that but rather the quiet and thoughtful moments.
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Old August 7 2012, 06:19 AM   #197
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Re: The Newsroom.

Count Zero wrote: View Post
I also like to thank Aaaron Sorkin for keeping it low on the patriotism scale, relatively speaking. The reaction many Americans had to those news, namely the "USA! USA!" chanting and the cheering as if the US had just won an important sports event, was something that I found very alien and also disconcerting (no offense). It certainly made me realise that, despite watching so many hours of American TV and movies and following the news, I really don't understand Americans at all.
Anyway, I thought it was a nice touch we didn't get to see that but rather the quiet and thoughtful moments.
It was a release moment. OBL was the Boogie Man hiding out there ready to jump out and kill you for years. Most of those cheering, they were in their late teens and early twenties. They were people who were in the single digits to teens when 9/11 happened and OBL became the nations Boogieman.

I was older, but seeing it play out on TV I understood and it felt, for lack of a better word, good to know we had finally got him.
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Old August 7 2012, 02:53 PM   #198
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Re: The Newsroom.

Not to derail things, but...
Count Zero wrote:
I also like to thank Aaaron Sorkin for keeping it low on the patriotism scale, relatively speaking. The reaction many Americans had to those news, namely the "USA! USA!" chanting and the cheering as if the US had just won an important sports event, was something that I found very alien and also disconcerting (no offense). It certainly made me realise that, despite watching so many hours of American TV and movies and following the news, I really don't understand Americans at all.
And I don't understand how anyone could possibly object to the celebrations. Some said it was bloodlust, but I consider that absurd; if he'd been taken alive, and was in US custody, does anyone seriously believe the mood would have been even less triumphant? If anything, I'd think the opposite would be true.


Count Zero wrote:
the "USA! USA!" chanting and the cheering as if the US had just won an important sports event
Are you saying that, after nearly ten years of delay, the capture of a man responsible for murdering more than 3,000 people, not to mention the resulting economic damage and rush to war with Iraq, was less worthy of celebration than a win at an "important sports event"? Because if so, I'm afraid I don't understand you at all.
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Old August 7 2012, 03:04 PM   #199
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Re: The Newsroom.

To me, it looked like reducing a rather complex conflict to something akin to a sports event where you win if you kill someone from the other side. I found this way of seeing things quite alien. It's not that easy to explain, I guess, and it isn't a debate I really want to have because it would probably derail pretty quickly. I just mentioned it because I appreciated how we got to see a different side in the episode.
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Old August 7 2012, 10:49 PM   #200
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Re: The Newsroom.

The bloodlust was off putting.

You could tell that everyone was doing the Carlton dance in their head the instant they heard.
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Old August 8 2012, 02:50 AM   #201
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Re: The Newsroom.

And you really think that wouldn't have been the case had everyone in that compound been taken alive? If so, you must be dreaming.

The apprehension of a mass murderer after nearly a decade of delayed justice is worth celebrating. That's about the exact opposite of bloodlust.
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Old August 8 2012, 05:42 AM   #202
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Re: The Newsroom.

I have to say that other than Episode 2, I've been loving this show. The only grating thing remains Maggie's character. Can't stand the actor.
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Old August 8 2012, 09:47 AM   #203
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Re: The Newsroom.

Gaith wrote: View Post
And you really think that wouldn't have been the case had everyone in that compound been taken alive? If so, you must be dreaming.

The apprehension of a mass murderer after nearly a decade of delayed justice is worth celebrating. That's about the exact opposite of bloodlust.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Osama_bin_Laden

He was unarmed, and they shot through his screaming wives who were willingly acting as human shields to get Osama after shooting through his family and some security to bare him down into his bedroom.

I especially like the quotes in that article that suggest that there was never any intention of taking him alive.

If Osama had an ak47 in each hand, wearing a suicide vest in the middle of a town square mowing down children, sure shoot him in the head, but that wasn't the case. 90 us soldiers detached to the CIA stormed his house while they were sleeping and shot everyone they could like cowboys.

It would have been so easy to take him alive, becuase all they had to do was not kill him.

I wanted a trial.

I wanted a humiliating imprisonment.

He was only 54! So what if he needed 6 hours of kidney dialysis a day to live... Just imagine how many times he could have been raped by broom handles in the showers and glory be if the cooks in the kitchen didn't take turns shitting and pissing in his dinner.

They could have done that for twenty years, dragging him out every 911 to apologise in times square and be spat on suggesting that maybe this is the year that they finally execute him.

That's my reaction to taking him alive.

This is my reaction to some seal shooting a monster in his pajamas... "but what that monster was doing in that seals Pajamas I'll never know."

killing him was too little too late.

The Russians at least would have mummified the bastard.

That's why Hitler incinerated himself.

He didn't want to be on mounted for the next thousand years in the Kremlin's lobby while tourists were snapshotting each other pretending to dryhump up his displaycase.

But what did the Americans do with their Hitler?

They burried him at sea immediately without photographic or DNA evidence of the kill?

I can't be the first one to suggest conspiracy?

Maybe they offered Osama a don't ask don't tell deal becuase it was beginning to get embarassing, or after the shit went down they figured out that it was a fucking decoy?

Burial at sea my ass.

You bring the body back and plan a series of parades across the country, then then you cut his body up into little bits and sell them on ebay, then forward the proceeds to the families of the victims of 911 and reconstruction.
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Old August 8 2012, 12:38 PM   #204
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Re: The Newsroom.

Had Osama been captured, my poetic justice scenario would be for him to clean up all the rubble at WTC then personally meet the surviving New York fire department personnel. With axes.

But had he actually been captured, it would undoubtedly take a minimum of 17 years and millions of legal dollars to give him life imprisonment in a maximum security cell.

After Tora Bora occurred, I lost most of my hope he'd be found. assuming he still lived. What irked me was George W. Bush saying it didn't concern him too much during the initial months Bin Laden had escaped. That's an approximate quote, on the order of ''I'm not all that concerned.'' No matter what party you're from, it should concern you he was eluding justice.

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Old August 8 2012, 01:17 PM   #205
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Re: The Newsroom.

During the attack on his compound they lost a 35 million dollar helicopter because the support staff used the wrong oil to lubricate the rotor blades for the Pakistani climate.

They spent billions looking for him and pretending to look for him.

If in the beginning, if they had said, "we're going to spend 90 billion dollars and ten years to find this guy and shoot him with a four dollar bullet", do you really think that it all seems justifiable?

What if some one else had claimed that they could have found him in 5 years for 45 bilion?

And these costs are not even factoring in the invasions of Afganistan and Iraqi which were originally justified by lies from the White House that it was all connected to 911.

Life imprisonment would be peanuts compared to what had been done up to this point.

The really difficult thing is that once he has the rights of an American Prisoner, that the US government would put him at the top of the doner list for kidney transplants.
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Old August 8 2012, 05:04 PM   #206
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Re: The Newsroom.

Jax wrote: View Post
Just watched last nights episode and dam The Newsroom just reached West Wing levels with that. I loved every dam minute
I actually had the opposite reaction, this episode cemented for me that this show is very unlike The West Wing. I thought back to the storyline about the assassination of Abdul Shareef, how TWW spent two episodes debating the morality, legality, and necessity of such an act, all culminating in that wonderfully quiet scene at the theatre.

BARTLET: It's just wrong. It's absolutely wrong.
LEO: I know. But you have to do it anyway.
This episode of The Newsroom dealt with a similar subject, the assassination of a foreign terrorist leader by the US government, but rather than explore the deeper issues, it plays out as a feel-good story containing the wacky antics of a stoned Will McAvoy. Fair enough, I understand why the episode played out that way, I just personally found it to be a less interesting.
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Old August 11 2012, 07:09 AM   #207
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Re: The Newsroom.

Count Zero wrote: View Post
To me, it looked like reducing a rather complex conflict to something akin to a sports event where you win if you kill someone from the other side. I found this way of seeing things quite alien. It's not that easy to explain, I guess, and it isn't a debate I really want to have because it would probably derail pretty quickly. I just mentioned it because I appreciated how we got to see a different side in the episode.
I think Charlie set the tone nicely for that episode. For him, this wasn't a "yeehaw" moment, but a "you'll never forget where you were" moment, and for me, that made all of the difference.

I just finished watching the series up to this point (yay HBO on Demand!), and I am enamored with it. I missed the West Wing, but I got in on the ground floor of this series, and I think it will do well. I hope it does well, as I love the stories, the dialogue, the character interactions, and even the whole premise behind the series.
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Old August 11 2012, 11:33 PM   #208
Count Zero
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Re: The Newsroom.

I'm currently watching my way through The West Wing with two friends of mine. Last night, we watched "20 Hours in America" and I saw a young James Tiberius Harper. He was a volunteer for the Bartlet campaign in Indiana but claimed to be called Tyler.
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Old August 12 2012, 02:10 AM   #209
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Re: The Newsroom.

Okay, caught up.

Aaron Sorkin really has a problem with his female characters, he constantly has to rehash his relationships, which was one of the things that ruined Studio 60 for me. Wow, did that get tedious. And the Maggie/Jim/Don thing just stinks the place up, reaching the same levels of tediousness. It should be dropped, dropped, dropped.

And... relax. Glad I got that out of my system.

Aside from the above, really like this show, and I think it has legs (where S60 didn't). Theya re burning through time though. Started in 2010, now mid 2011, going to catch up to now soon, and that won't be so good.

One thing I've always admired Sorkin for is his wish that people were better, did better. He doesn't always get it right, and he's a bad example in his won life, but he tries to set something we can live by.

All in all, a good show and well worth watching.
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Old August 12 2012, 03:15 AM   #210
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Re: The Newsroom.

Up until the most recent episode, I had been hoping that Don would head off to Mandyville in between seasons. Now I think he might be worth keeping around.
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