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Old July 27 2012, 06:23 AM   #151
Drago-Kazov
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Re: The Newsroom.

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
I am a nonpartisan who hates both sides. Does this show go after dems too for Obama's executive power grabs, wars, war on whistleblowers and Wall Street funders too or is it a partisan hack show which only goes after one side?
I wouldn't say that it's overly partisan. Or maybe I should say it's not overtly partisan. There are obviously definite leftist leanings in the writing, the topics being covered and the conclusions being drawn, but since they're using the Tea Party as the foil/baseline for comparison, even Ronald Reagan would be considered a rainbow-flag waving liberal communist by today's standards. Makes for easy pickings, really. The real challengie is painting in shades of gray which they arguably haven't even tried to do. Perhaps that's why they are gathering together a whole new writing team.
I want to like the show but i am not a partisan hack and i want to see some ideological diversity.They should hire a couple of lbertairan writers for the show and go after both sides. Untill then i cannot watch this. They would actualy win viewers instead of losing them considering how low public trust is in the US government.
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Old July 27 2012, 08:53 AM   #152
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Re: The Newsroom.

Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
I want to like the show but i am not a partisan hack and i want to see some ideological diversity.They should hire a couple of lbertairan writers for the show and go after both sides.
Don't be silly.

That would require Aaron Sorkin to actually share a writing credit's royalty check.
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Old July 27 2012, 10:26 AM   #153
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Re: The Newsroom.

Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
I am a nonpartisan who hates both sides. Does this show go after dems too for Obama's executive power grabs, wars, war on whistleblowers and Wall Street funders too or is it a partisan hack show which only goes after one side?
I wouldn't say that it's overly partisan. Or maybe I should say it's not overtly partisan. There are obviously definite leftist leanings in the writing, the topics being covered and the conclusions being drawn, but since they're using the Tea Party as the foil/baseline for comparison, even Ronald Reagan would be considered a rainbow-flag waving liberal communist by today's standards. Makes for easy pickings, really. The real challengie is painting in shades of gray which they arguably haven't even tried to do. Perhaps that's why they are gathering together a whole new writing team.
I want to like the show but i am not a partisan hack and i want to see some ideological diversity.They should hire a couple of lbertairan writers for the show and go after both sides. Untill then i cannot watch this. They would actualy win viewers instead of losing them considering how low public trust is in the US government.
Since you've mentioned "partisan hack" twice now, why don't you talk about the ways in which it is partisan and in which ways the writers are hacks.

The perspective of the show is Sorkin's, which is primarily from the left of the Democratic party, but the main character is a sympathetic socially moderate conservative much like Vinnick from the last couple seasons of the West Wing, essentially the kind of Republican that liberals wished still existed in politics because they aren't just about "god, guns and gays."

Most of the outright criticism and commentary on the show is shining a very unflattering light on the Tea Party, and by association the Republican party; but, it is primarily from the heavy heart of our "hero" who laments what his party has become and not portrayed as gloating by a liberal/democrat.

Considering this is like the fourth such sympathetic Republican character (and one that is again portrayed as smarter than most of the people around them) Sorkin has created, I can't see where any hackish partisanship has appeared. There surely have been opportunities to go after Obama that have been skipped, but I'm not sure if that is intentional or if such debates simply don't have thematic impact and/or would require too much screen time to accomplish fairly with too little interest in doing so. The Tea Party members they brought on the show were shown as earnest and well-meaning if naive, and the thread as carried through for several episodes. To take on the Obama administration would probably require as much if not more time dedicated to that plot.

I imagine next season will get into Occupy a bit, which will give them a nice target for criticizing the left.

Come to TNZ, lets see where you really stand.
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Old July 27 2012, 10:40 AM   #154
Drago-Kazov
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Re: The Newsroom.

I am already posting more then enough on Perspectives.com about politics.

The perspective of the show is Sorkin's, which is primarily from the left of the Democratic party, but the main character is a sympathetic socially moderate conservative much like Vinnick from the last couple seasons of the West Wing, essentially the kind of Republican that liberals wished still existed in politics because they aren't just about "god, guns and gays."
What are his policy positions that indicate that he is a David Frum republican?

Most of the outright criticism and commentary on the show is shining a very unflattering light on the Tea Party, and by association the Republican party; but, it is primarily from the heavy heart of our "hero" who laments what his party has become and not portrayed as gloating by a liberal/democrat.
I only saw one segment in which he said that that the Koch brothers are giants compared to Soros. Are you kidding, Soros funds the DNC, Moveon, the hungarian Socialist Party and who knows what else. He also broke the Bank of England.

My prediction is if they go after dems it won't be because Sorkin wants to do it.
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Old July 27 2012, 04:54 PM   #155
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Re: The Newsroom.

Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
I am a nonpartisan who hates both sides. Does this show go after dems too for Obama's executive power grabs, wars, war on whistleblowers and Wall Street funders too or is it a partisan hack show which only goes after one side?
Obama was criticised for being worse on gun-control than Bush was, but that was part of a scene criticising the Tea Party types for their unfounded fear that Obama is a socialist that's trying to take their guns.

Gaith wrote: View Post
But that's the inherent trap, innit? Because the show's about real-world news, it feels relevant. But because it's set in the real world two years ago, we know it'll never really change anything; it'll just always doodle around the margins. With The West Wing, the gang may not have been in the real world per se, but they could get s*** done.
Yeah, that's a big problem with the format, and it was especially noticeable in the third episode when Will went on a 6 month crusade against the Tea Party, yet they still won the election. If the point of the show is that the news has a duty to inform the electorate so they can make better decisions then it's not working, because the result is that the better-informed electorate voted for the same people. The show needs the freedom to convey its message and tying it into the real world wont allow them to do that. Hopefully they'll drop that angle in season 2.
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Old July 27 2012, 06:18 PM   #156
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Re: The Newsroom.

They took a shot at the Obama gov't gutting the DoJ going after the banks. That was the whole thing evolving Mack's boyfriend and his appearances on the news. He brought Will the story.

And they didn't attack the idea of the tea party. They were attacking the facts that many of the tea party members were on the uninformed side of topics and that the "movement" was hijacked by big money corporate interests and they didn't even know it. Will was saying that the tea party was like the lefts hippies in the 60's, but in that case the democrat party ignored the radical elements of it.
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Old July 27 2012, 07:00 PM   #157
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Re: The Newsroom.

Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
I am already posting more then enough on Perspectives.com about politics.

The perspective of the show is Sorkin's, which is primarily from the left of the Democratic party, but the main character is a sympathetic socially moderate conservative much like Vinnick from the last couple seasons of the West Wing, essentially the kind of Republican that liberals wished still existed in politics because they aren't just about "god, guns and gays."
What are his policy positions that indicate that he is a David Frum republican?
I agree. I've been watching the show but in my mind, it is not yet near the level that The West Wing had, even this early in its run. The fact that the main character is said to be a Republican member seems to be only to attempt to give more power and credibility to the left-leaning views that the show (through him) is espousing. Who's criticism of an organization would you take more strongly: an outsider waving his fists around wildly or an inside member expressing dissention.

Yet still, the politics is the most interesting part of the show. What is becoming increasingly difficult to tolerate is the retardedly juvenile behaviour of the characters including two love triangles that are often painful to witness.
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Old July 28 2012, 12:59 AM   #158
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Re: The Newsroom.

Would you be able to list your co-workers' political stance with more than broad strokes? Your average citizen doesn't have stances on policy, they have a vague philosophy and judge such specifics as they come. Will isn't a politician, he is a newsman who has mostly tried to play agnostic for most of his career for the sake of appearing impartial. Here in California I've often been surprised when friends tell me they're Republican because they are on the surface the perfect example of a moderate Democrat, and usually it is dependent on such simple things as who their Dad voted for or what news was on in their household growing up. Moderate Democrats and Moderate Republicans really aren't all that far apart at all, they simply took a stance at some point and feel the need to hold it. McAvoy says he is a Republican and has mostly voted republican and that is all that is necessary for now, and still leaves them room to establish his specific philosophy in later episodes as it becomes convenient.
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Old July 28 2012, 04:13 AM   #159
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Re: The Newsroom.

Elemental wrote: View Post
Yet still, the politics is the most interesting part of the show. What is becoming increasingly difficult to tolerate is the retardedly juvenile behaviour of the characters including two love triangles that are often painful to witness.
Yeah, while I'm annoyed by Will's RINO schtick, the way the characters (particularly the women other than Sloan) are written is the main problem I have with this show.
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Old July 28 2012, 07:58 AM   #160
Drago-Kazov
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Re: The Newsroom.

Venardhi posted:

Would you be able to list your co-workers' political stance with more than broad strokes?
If he works as a political reporter probably yes.

I give this one a shot, i will see where it goes.
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Old July 28 2012, 04:58 PM   #161
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Re: The Newsroom.

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
Elemental wrote: View Post
Yet still, the politics is the most interesting part of the show. What is becoming increasingly difficult to tolerate is the retardedly juvenile behaviour of the characters including two love triangles that are often painful to witness.
Yeah, while I'm annoyed by Will's RINO schtick, the way the characters (particularly the women other than Sloan) are written is the main problem I have with this show.
Yeah, the men are basicly all egotistical jerks (aside from Dev Patel who's got the lovable minority schtick) and the women are all overly dramatic histrionics. It's unfortunate that there is no one nearly as inspiring as President Jed Bartlet or any of the rest of The West Wing characters.

In general, it creates a much more pessimistic view where the main characters are lamenting the good old days and the main emotion is frustration that everyone just isn't as smart as them.
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Old July 28 2012, 05:00 PM   #162
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Re: The Newsroom.

He isn't a political reporter, he is an evening news anchor. He is described in the first episode as "the Jay Leno of news."
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Old July 28 2012, 05:05 PM   #163
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Re: The Newsroom.

Kinda makes one wish Sorkin were just writing 5-10 minute current editorial shorts in dialogue form for an HBO web series or something, thus getting a rotating stable of top-notch actors, while continuing to work first and foremost on his movie scripts, and saving the sitcom shlock for... well, sitcoms.
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Old July 28 2012, 05:09 PM   #164
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Re: The Newsroom.

Venardhi wrote: View Post
Would you be able to list your co-workers' political stance with more than broad strokes? Your average citizen doesn't have stances on policy, they have a vague philosophy and judge such specifics as they come. Will isn't a politician, he is a newsman who has mostly tried to play agnostic for most of his career for the sake of appearing impartial. Here in California I've often been surprised when friends tell me they're Republican because they are on the surface the perfect example of a moderate Democrat, and usually it is dependent on such simple things as who their Dad voted for or what news was on in their household growing up. Moderate Democrats and Moderate Republicans really aren't all that far apart at all, they simply took a stance at some point and feel the need to hold it. McAvoy says he is a Republican and has mostly voted republican and that is all that is necessary for now, and still leaves them room to establish his specific philosophy in later episodes as it becomes convenient.
I'd say the show has presented a lot more evidence of leftward-leanings in Will both fiscally and socially. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they later try and make him out to be a moderate fiscal conservative. And Will isn't your typical average water-cooler politico. This guy spends his life dealing with this sort of stuff so I think he has a pretty clearly doled out sense of what he stands for. I don't recall it ever saying he's voted for more Republicans than Democrats. All I recall is in the opening sequence of the premiere that he said he's voted for members of both parties and that it later mentioned he's a card carrying Republican. I really feel it's just another way for Sorkin to try to show what a detioration there has been in Republican party principles that even its members are turning against it.

Any of the show's criticisms of the Democrats has come off very superficial in comparisson.
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Old July 28 2012, 10:29 PM   #165
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Re: The Newsroom.

In this world there's no such thing as a fiscal conservative, just right and wrong.
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