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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 30 2012, 10:00 PM   #31
R. Star
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

Really Kirk was a jerk towards Decker in this movie.

"I'm in command."
"But sir..."
"STFU, btw you're demoted."
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Old June 30 2012, 10:27 PM   #32
BillJ
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Really Kirk was a jerk towards Decker in this movie.

"I'm in command."
"But sir..."
"STFU, btw you're demoted."
Better for the Earth that he was a jerk or else everyone would've been digitized.
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Old July 1 2012, 06:21 AM   #33
Chaos Descending
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Really Kirk was a jerk towards Decker in this movie.

"I'm in command."
"But sir..."
"STFU, btw you're demoted."
Don't join the military.

People have higher ranks than other people for a reason.
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Old July 1 2012, 04:15 PM   #34
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

Chaos Descending wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Really Kirk was a jerk towards Decker in this movie.

"I'm in command."
"But sir..."
"STFU, btw you're demoted."
Don't join the military.

People have higher ranks than other people for a reason.
There are times for niceties. But an object being twenty hours away from obliterating Earth isn't one of them.
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Old July 6 2012, 05:29 PM   #35
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

^^^ Exactly!
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Old July 7 2012, 11:59 AM   #36
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Chaos Descending wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Really Kirk was a jerk towards Decker in this movie.

"I'm in command."
"But sir..."
"STFU, btw you're demoted."
Don't join the military.

People have higher ranks than other people for a reason.
There are times for niceties. But an object being twenty hours away from obliterating Earth isn't one of them.
Technically, it was "Less than three days" at that point. When Spock helps fix the warp drive Kirk's log states they "will be able to intercept Intruder while still more than a day from Earth."
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Old July 9 2012, 01:52 AM   #37
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

Slightly off-topic, but I never understood why Kirk and Decker both took "temporary grade reductions" for this mission. Is there any reason that Admiral Kirk and Captain Decker had to become Captain Kirk and Commander Decker?

For Kirk, it was voluntary, of course, but for Decker, it seems something of a slap in the face. Yes, Starfleet had decided that Kirk was the better choice to command the ship on this emergency mission. But Decker hadn't done anything wrong, and going down in rank would normally be associated with disciplinary action.

There's no reason you couldn't have someone of Captain rank as first officer. Heck, by the time of TUC, Kirk had a Captain as first officer and a Captain as chief engineer.
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Old July 9 2012, 04:16 AM   #38
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

I think from an out-of-universe perspective, you wanted to have "Captain Kirk" in the movie and didn't want to make Decker seem more important than Spock because he outranked him.

But I really don't know.
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Old July 9 2012, 10:13 AM   #39
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

One might quite safely speculate that Kirk had to sell his soul, his left arm and some of his rank braid in order to get command of the Enterprise. Scotty suggests as much in the travel pod dialogue...

Kirk's own demotion, temporary or otherwise, is not that big a mystery; Decker's is...

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Old July 21 2012, 11:37 PM   #40
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

CoveTom wrote: View Post
Slightly off-topic, but I never understood why Kirk and Decker both took "temporary grade reductions" for this mission. Is there any reason that Admiral Kirk and Captain Decker had to become Captain Kirk and Commander Decker?
In the real world, it's a holdover from the conversion of the script for "Phase II: In Thy Image" into ST:TMP. For the aborted ST revival series, Shatner planned to stay with the show - as captain, and a regular - perhaps for 13 episodes, depending on the success of the career in mainstream feature films that he and his agent were hoping for. Nimoy was refusing to sign, thus Xon was conceived as a replacement. Decker would assume the captaincy. Kirk would have been promoted to Admiral, in hope that Shatner would be more inclined to make semi-regular "special guest appearances".

To increase tension between Kirk and Decker, the demotion stuff was added to the movie script. Another stray holdover is a line about Ilia's headband, seemingly suggesting she'd been on board long enough to have developed a friendship with Dr Chapel (as per the "Phase II" writers bible), even though we'd just seen Ilia come aboard as a new crew person.

Similarly, in the first post-movie comic strip for the LA Times Syndicate, Ilia is still alive after the departure of V'ger, since the comic had to be completed before the movie had its ending set in stone. (And, in "In Thy Image", Ilia is returned intact after the Ilia Probe, aka "Tasha", reverts to a small, burnt-out mechanism at the end of the telemovie.)
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Old July 25 2012, 04:27 AM   #41
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

I don't think its fair to say that Decker in command the mission would have failed. I mean consider what happens if Decker is not there. The Enterprise is destroyed by a asteroid we Kirk orders a phaser strike and nothing happens.

Decker could have succeeded, it would have likely done things way different. Now hay Kirk is the man, but he leads without much discussion at times, its based years of command. Decker seems to be more a democratic leader. It says a lot about him that when he gets canned by Kirk he is down in engineer working with Scotty. I don't think Kirk ever did something like that. Its not to say one is better than the other.

Decker would have launched the Enterprise slower but in perfect working order. He would likely consulted his command crew before proceeding, and would likely found a way to integrate Spock into the crew. Might have keep a closer watch on him than Kirk did.
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Old July 25 2012, 04:35 AM   #42
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

Sorry Double post.
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Old July 25 2012, 04:50 AM   #43
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

Also, all Decker's opinions and suggestions may not really be the actions he himself would have taken had he been in command. Possibly. As he says, "As your exec, it's my duty to point out alternatives."

As the first officer, he has the option of presenting actions to the commanding officer. If Decker had the center seat and ultimate responsibility, maybe he would have done things differently.

There could have been a difference between his suggestions fulfilling his role as exec versus his actions as captain of the ship. Just saying. Maybe.
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Old July 25 2012, 09:25 AM   #44
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

Also, Kirk towards the end seemed pretty confident that suicide bombing with the ship's antimatter engines would be a workable solution to the V'Ger problem. Now, that's a Decker family tradition right there! OTOH, Kirk is famous for only using suicide as a bluff, and shying away if actually confronted with it ("By Any Other Name"); Decker might be more willing to take that step. Especially if the loss of Ilia comes to pass in this alternate story as well, and leaves Decker in grief.

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Old August 6 2012, 01:40 AM   #45
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Re: TMP: Decker in Command?

I think Decker would have been fine. And actually, when you think about it, Decker was absolutely right about two things: Kirk had practically no experience at all with the new Enterprise, and he had not logged any star hours in 2.5 years (could have been even longer since his last command).

What would have made sense is Admiral Kirk being aboard as an adviser with some measure of veto to Decker's decisions, but NOT as Captain. But then of course, it wouldn't have been quite like the "good ol' times". Kirk would have been along just for the ride. However, he'd have gotten his captaincy at the end anyway, with Decker vanishing.
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