TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!) - Page 19

Christopher · July 12 2012, 03:27 PM

^There's definitely no consensus. In fact, when Marco Palmieri was still the editor and still posting on this forum, I seem to recall he disliked the whole idea of trying to force the books to fit a TV-season formula, because the whole thing he was trying to do was to embrace the new possibilities of the book format and take things in a direction a TV show couldn't have gone.

So please don't think of the "season" thing as anything more than a conceit held by a few fans. It's really not a legitimate interpretation of the books at all. At best, it's a very rough and imperfect analogy.

RonG · July 12 2012, 03:29 PM

mindx2 wrote:

Christopher wrote:

RonG wrote:

Of course it's only IMO, Christopher

IIRC both of us said these exact things a couple of years ago

Yes, but this is not a private conversation between the two of us. This is a public forum and may be read by any number of people who aren't familiar with those past discussions. So phrasing your opinion as if it were an absolute truth could be misleading, and I didn't want anyone to come away with false impressions because of it.

I did think that RonG's response meant that this board had come to a consensus on the whole "seasons" thing

.

I don't recall ever seeing this Board reach a consensus on anything..

But just to clarify, this was of course my opinion only

mindx2 · July 12 2012, 03:57 PM

RonG wrote:

I don't recall ever seeing this Board reach a consensus on anything..

But just to clarify, this was of course my opinion only

Yeah, maybe consensus was too strong a word

!!

Relayer1 · July 12 2012, 04:09 PM

RonG wrote:

I don't recall ever seeing this Board reach a consensus on anything.

I'm going to give it a shot -

'I like, to a greater or lesser degree, at least some parts of the Star Trek franchise'.

Hows that - do we have a consensus or not ?

Christopher · July 12 2012, 04:20 PM

^I dunno, I've seen at least one or two posters here who didn't seem to like anything about Star Trek, at least nothing that made it what it was. Like that one guy who liked the space battles and wanted the whole thing to be turned into a war story, oh, and without all that pesky diversity and tolerance and those icky aliens.

Thrawn · July 12 2012, 05:23 PM

Christopher wrote:

^I dunno, I've seen at least one or two posters here who didn't seem to like anything about Star Trek, at least nothing that made it what it was. Like that one guy who liked the space battles and wanted the whole thing to be turned into a war story, oh, and without all that pesky diversity and tolerance and those icky aliens.

Right, and with all male crews, iirc.

DEWLine · July 12 2012, 09:07 PM

*rolls eyes* Determined to miss every point of the various series, that one was.

Jarvisimo · July 12 2012, 09:58 PM

I am not someone who wishes to see 'war trek', but I would love to see more ... diverse takes on combat in Trek, as say Mack has done at points (his stuff on Tezwa and in Destiny, for example). But ship-to-ship remains ... typified or stereotyped? I would like an author like Dan Abnett to write trek fiction, even though his publications are predominantly science fiction war writing. In his two last novels, Salvations' Reach and Know No Fear (both for a British IP James Swallow also writes for - Black Library/Warhammer 40000) he did some of the best ship-to-ship combat I've read (I admit, not a great deal). I can't find a relevant extract from either, from their naval or combat scenes, but this section from early on Salvation's Reach shows some of the ship, and another with lovely description, and here is an extract from Know No Fear.

The war in his novels, increasingly more and more, is a backdrop to not only excellent characterization, but rather artsy redefinitions of the possibility of the IP he works with. Know No Fear was a rather succesful deployment of present tense descriptive/reportive style, Salvation's Reach one of the high points of his longest-running series, for its subverting tropes and civilianising his characters, opening with a chapter of character hopping that is a delight to read and listen to both, and an earlier novel, Prospero Burns is a much about the loss of knowledge, and therefore carries dozen of linguistic and literary allusions to loss, of human, memory, cultural and historical kinds. If there ever was 'war trek', not that I think it totally suitable, I would hope it would be more than plot and phaser porn - I guess I would hope it could be subverted or used as a springboard into more artistic or genre-breaking territory (as has been done with some war trek, like Tezwa, in the past).

JD · July 12 2012, 10:43 PM

Is this a different Dan Abnett?

Christopher · July 12 2012, 11:39 PM

Jarvisimo wrote:

I am not someone who wishes to see 'war trek', but I would love to see more ... diverse takes on combat in Trek, as say Mack has done at points (his stuff on Tezwa and in Destiny, for example). But ship-to-ship remains ... typified or stereotyped?

I'm not that fond of writing space battles, nor reading them, but for just that reason I always try to make the ones I do write fresh and interesting -- not just firing phasers and shaking ships and "shields down to 20 percent," but exercises in problem-solving and strategy, finding clever and unusual ways to use the astronomical phenomena of the battlefield or the potentials of the available technology. I can't say if my approach would be to your taste, but I doubt it could be called stereotypical.

Relayer1 · July 12 2012, 11:47 PM

RonG wrote:

I don't recall ever seeing this Board reach a consensus on anything.

I'm going to give it a shot -

'I like, to a greater or lesser degree, at least some parts of the Star Trek franchise'.

Hows that - do we have a consensus or not ?

Christopher wrote:

^I dunno, I've seen at least one or two posters here who didn't seem to like anything about Star Trek, at least nothing that made it what it was. Like that one guy who liked the space battles and wanted the whole thing to be turned into a war story, oh, and without all that pesky diversity and tolerance and those icky aliens.

But he did like SOMETHING !

Diversity in action...

Relayer1 · July 12 2012, 11:48 PM

Double post. Apologies.

Thrawn · July 13 2012, 12:02 AM

My favorite space battle (and I know we're getting WAY off topic here) is in Federation, Ent-D vs. a Romulan warbird. For anyone that hasn't read it, I won't say how it ends, but I thought it was entirely awesome.

Sho · July 13 2012, 01:17 PM

I once opened a thread on memorable space battles btw

.

Poncho Anderson · July 13 2012, 08:08 PM

Just weighing in on the novel...I thought it was a fabulous read. I rate it in the top 5 of post Destiny novels (the David Mack trilogy and Kirsten Beyer's Full Circle book re-relaunching Voyager being the only novels I've enjoyed more).

Loving Captain Ro though I can't say I'd really gotten used to having Kira in command. I'm hopeful we'll see a future novel that fills in the missing gap that occurred when DS9 was warped into the current continuity. Perhaps Christopher, Kirsten or DRGIII could be persuaded to write this book? I'd be first in line to purchase it.

I'm particularly found of Ro's new crew. Can't wait to get more interaction amongst them in future stories. My only regret was the absence of old friends (Captain Dax, Sam Bowers and Shar), as I consider them part of the DS9 mythos through and through. I take solace in knowing both Dax and Bowers will be in the upcoming Typhon Pact novel coming in a few months.

In closing, I'd recommend this novel to anyone who's a Star Trek fan. It was totally awesome!

View Poll Results: Rate Raise the Dawn.
Outstanding	80	72.73%
Above Average	23	20.91%
Average	2	1.82%
Below Average	2	1.82%
Poor	3	2.73%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

July 12 2012, 03:27 PM	#271
Christopher Writer	Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!) ^There's definitely no consensus. In fact, when Marco Palmieri was still the editor and still posting on this forum, I seem to recall he disliked the whole idea of trying to force the books to fit a TV-season formula, because the whole thing he was trying to do was to embrace the new possibilities of the book format and take things in a direction a TV show couldn't have gone. So please don't think of the "season" thing as anything more than a conceit held by a few fans. It's really not a legitimate interpretation of the books at all. At best, it's a very rough and imperfect analogy. __________________ Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Includes purchasing links for Only Superhuman, on sale now! Updated 12/30/12 with annotations for the novel. Written Worlds -- My blog

July 12 2012, 04:20 PM	#275
Christopher Writer	Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!) ^I dunno, I've seen at least one or two posters here who didn't seem to like anything about Star Trek, at least nothing that made it what it was. Like that one guy who liked the space battles and wanted the whole thing to be turned into a war story, oh, and without all that pesky diversity and tolerance and those icky aliens. __________________ Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Includes purchasing links for Only Superhuman, on sale now! Updated 12/30/12 with annotations for the novel. Written Worlds -- My blog

July 12 2012, 09:07 PM	#277
DEWLine Captain Location: Ottawa, Canada	Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!) rolls eyes Determined to miss every point of the various series, that one was. __________________ Yours, Dwight Williams Illustrator/Writer

July 12 2012, 09:58 PM	#278
Jarvisimo Lieutenant Commander Location: Edinburgh	Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!) I am not someone who wishes to see 'war trek', but I would love to see more ... diverse takes on combat in Trek, as say Mack has done at points (his stuff on Tezwa and in Destiny, for example). But ship-to-ship remains ... typified or stereotyped? I would like an author like Dan Abnett to write trek fiction, even though his publications are predominantly science fiction war writing. In his two last novels, Salvations' Reach and Know No Fear (both for a British IP James Swallow also writes for - Black Library/Warhammer 40000) he did some of the best ship-to-ship combat I've read (I admit, not a great deal). I can't find a relevant extract from either, from their naval or combat scenes, but this section from early on Salvation's Reach shows some of the ship, and another with lovely description, and here is an extract from Know No Fear. The war in his novels, increasingly more and more, is a backdrop to not only excellent characterization, but rather artsy redefinitions of the possibility of the IP he works with. Know No Fear was a rather succesful deployment of present tense descriptive/reportive style, Salvation's Reach one of the high points of his longest-running series, for its subverting tropes and civilianising his characters, opening with a chapter of character hopping that is a delight to read and listen to both, and an earlier novel, Prospero Burns is a much about the loss of knowledge, and therefore carries dozen of linguistic and literary allusions to loss, of human, memory, cultural and historical kinds. If there ever was 'war trek', not that I think it totally suitable, I would hope it would be more than plot and phaser porn - I guess I would hope it could be subverted or used as a springboard into more artistic or genre-breaking territory (as has been done with some war trek, like Tezwa, in the past).

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

July 12 2012, 10:43 PM	#279
JD Admiral Location: Arizona, USA	Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!) Is this a different Dan Abnett? __________________ Over the course of many encounters and many years, I have successfully developed a standard operating procedure for dealing with big, nasty monsters. Run away. Me and Monty Python. Harry Dresden - Blood Rites (The Dresden Files #6)

July 12 2012, 11:48 PM	#282
Relayer1 Fleet Captain Location: The Black Country, England	Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!) Double post. Apologies. __________________ Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...

July 13 2012, 12:02 AM	#283
Thrawn Commodore Location: Washington, DC	Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!) My favorite space battle (and I know we're getting WAY off topic here) is in Federation, Ent-D vs. a Romulan warbird. For anyone that hasn't read it, I won't say how it ends, but I thought it was entirely awesome. __________________ The Almighty Star Trek Lit-Verse Reading Order Flowchart - be confused no longer about what to read next, or what to read first. 12/5/12: Now brilliantly updated by 8of5!

July 13 2012, 01:17 PM	#284
Sho Fleet Captain Location: Berlin, Germany	Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!) I once opened a thread on memorable space battles btw . __________________ TrekLit review threads, sorted by average score (discussion thread).

July 13 2012, 08:08 PM	#285
Poncho Anderson Ensign	Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!) Just weighing in on the novel...I thought it was a fabulous read. I rate it in the top 5 of post Destiny novels (the David Mack trilogy and Kirsten Beyer's Full Circle book re-relaunching Voyager being the only novels I've enjoyed more). Loving Captain Ro though I can't say I'd really gotten used to having Kira in command. I'm hopeful we'll see a future novel that fills in the missing gap that occurred when DS9 was warped into the current continuity. Perhaps Christopher, Kirsten or DRGIII could be persuaded to write this book? I'd be first in line to purchase it. I'm particularly found of Ro's new crew. Can't wait to get more interaction amongst them in future stories. My only regret was the absence of old friends (Captain Dax, Sam Bowers and Shar), as I consider them part of the DS9 mythos through and through. I take solace in knowing both Dax and Bowers will be in the upcoming Typhon Pact novel coming in a few months. In closing, I'd recommend this novel to anyone who's a Star Trek fan. It was totally awesome!