RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,831
Posts: 5,473,214
Members: 25,039
Currently online: 481
Newest member: noroadcordova

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Covenant
By: Michelle on Nov 22

Two Official Starships Collection Previews
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Saldana: Women Issues In Hollywood
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Shatner Book Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Nov 20

Trek Original Series Slippers
By: T'Bonz on Nov 19

Hemsworth Is Sexiest Man Alive
By: T'Bonz on Nov 19

Trek Business Card Cases
By: T'Bonz on Nov 17

February IDW Publishing Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Nov 17

Retro Review: The Siege of AR-558
By: Michelle on Nov 15

Trevco Full Bleed Uniform T-Shirts
By: T'Bonz on Nov 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 11 2010, 06:38 PM   #1
Shatnertage
Rear Admiral
 
Shatnertage's Avatar
 
Location: Ward Fowler's gofer.
View Shatnertage's Twitter Profile
Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

I know, there are plenty of "fresh look at Voyager" threads floating around, but hear me out on this one. My wife and I are watching Voyager for pretty much the first time, thanks to us DVRing it from Spike TV. We're both longtime fans of Star Trek in general (me a little longer than her), who for various reasons didn't catch most of VOY in its initial run.

I've posted a few questions about episodes here in the past few weeks, but figured it would be better to just start one thread and keep them all there, since we've got tons of questions for each episode, and it'd be nice to get long-time fans' perspectives on them.

Last night we watched "The Thaw." Pretty early on, I saw the similarities to a few Philip K. Dick stories--most obviously A Maze of Death--but with the Trek twist of a real adversary. In most Dick stories about simulated reality gone wrong, it's simply the characters' neuroses that make it so miserable. Compelling fiction, but probably not good TV.

I was disappointed that Carel Struyken (sp) didn't get a bigger part, since Mr. Homn is one of my favorite characters and my dream episode would probably me him and Morn sitting there, swapping stories.

Other than that, I thought it was an intriguing episode with some great moments from Kim, the Dr, and particularly Janeway.

I've got a real fascination with evil clowns, so this was right up my alley.

What do other people think about this story?
__________________
I don't say 'sabotage.' You say 'sabotage.' I say 'sabataage."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlOTRxt-dIw
Shatnertage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2010, 06:59 PM   #2
JanewayRulz!
Vice Admiral
 
JanewayRulz!'s Avatar
 
Location: North America
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

Love it, Love Janeway in it, hate evil clowns.
JanewayRulz! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2010, 07:05 PM   #3
DarthTom
Fleet Admiral
 
DarthTom's Avatar
 
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

shatnertage wrote: View Post
I've got a real fascination with evil clowns, so this was right up my alley.

What do other people think about this story?
When I first watched the episode when it originally aired I thought it was stupid and contrived. Since then I have a new appreciation for what the writers were attempting to accomplish in it.

You have to IMHO severely suspend your disbelief in this specific episode because so much of Trek attempts to base itself on more realistic technology.

So, setting aside some of the suspension issues and looking at the message itself about the nature of evil and fear and after a fresh look as an older adult I really enjoy this episode.
DarthTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2010, 07:08 PM   #4
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

"A virus, a virus! He thinks we are a virus!"
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2010, 07:25 PM   #5
M
Vice Admiral
 
M's Avatar
 
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

"The Thaw" is one of Voyager's best outings. I love the abstract nature of the story. It mainly works because of Michael McKean's superb acting as Fear. Also, the minimalist setting makes it probably the most TOS-like episode of Voyager.
__________________
Bashir: »Out of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?«
Garak: »My dear doctor, they're all true.«
Bashir: »Even the lies?«
Garak: »Especially the lies.«
M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2010, 08:18 PM   #6
T.D. Possum
Commodore
 
T.D. Possum's Avatar
 
Location: Jelly Fridge
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

For a long time, I thought that I had only watched two episodes of Voyager when it was in its original run - Caretaker and Non Sequitur. Years later, I rewatched the whole series and was surprised to discover that I had also seen The Thaw back in the day. And then completely forgotten about it.

What is the point of this story? I don't know. Except that now I think it's a really great episode, and evidently I wasn't so smart at age 20.
T.D. Possum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2010, 12:00 AM   #7
Jeff O'Connor
Commodore
 
Jeff O'Connor's Avatar
 
Location: Tampa, FL
Send a message via AIM to Jeff O'Connor Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Jeff O'Connor
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

It's one of the best episodes in the series. Very TOS-like, in a very good way.
__________________
Star Trek
1966-
Jeff O'Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2010, 12:23 AM   #8
Joeman
Captain
 
Joeman's Avatar
 
Location: Purgatory
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

I wish I could go back and watch Voyager again for the first time. It was only about 3 years ago, as I had dismissed it during its original run. Although I think the show was fairly inconsistent compared to some of the other Treks, when it was great, it was great. Overall, I really enjoyed watching it all the way through.

A lot of people aren't all that fond of the The Thaw, but I love it. I scored it a 10/10. Much like TNG's The Royale (also quite unpopular), it reminds me of classic Trek. I really love both of them.
__________________
Joeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2010, 12:39 AM   #9
T.D. Possum
Commodore
 
T.D. Possum's Avatar
 
Location: Jelly Fridge
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

Joeman wrote: View Post
Much like TNG's The Royale (also quite unpopular), it reminds me of classic Trek. I really love both of them.
Hear, hear!
T.D. Possum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2010, 01:13 AM   #10
Shatnertage
Rear Admiral
 
Shatnertage's Avatar
 
Location: Ward Fowler's gofer.
View Shatnertage's Twitter Profile
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

AMG wrote: View Post
Joeman wrote: View Post
Much like TNG's The Royale (also quite unpopular), it reminds me of classic Trek. I really love both of them.
Hear, hear!
Which is funny, because I don't like The Royale at all, and I really don't like TOS episodes like The Empath, but I really liked this one. I think it was the Dickian influence. I'd always wondered what an episode of Trek written like him would have been like, and I think this is pretty close to what it would have been, at least after a few rewrites.

For as much as people grouse about VOY being TNG-lite, I'm seeing a lot of stuff that wouldn't have happened on TNG. The continuing arc with the Kazon spy (I forget his name) is probably the best example I can think of. I'm looking forward to seeing more.
__________________
I don't say 'sabotage.' You say 'sabotage.' I say 'sabataage."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlOTRxt-dIw
Shatnertage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2010, 02:05 PM   #11
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

Joeman wrote: View Post
I wish I could go back and watch Voyager again for the first time. It was only about 3 years ago, as I had dismissed it during its original run. Although I think the show was fairly inconsistent compared to some of the other Treks, when it was great, it was great. Overall, I really enjoyed watching it all the way through.

A lot of people aren't all that fond of the The Thaw, but I love it. I scored it a 10/10. Much like TNG's The Royale (also quite unpopular), it reminds me of classic Trek. I really love both of them.
I love the Royale due to Data.
He's freakin' funny in that ep.!

"Sir, what bid-ness is it we be gettin' down too?"
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2010, 05:11 PM   #12
henbane
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

It's one of the very best episodes of Voyager - and the evil clown//carnival atmosphere feeds the little piece of coulrophobia in most of us. Have always loved Michael McKean (who can forget Spinal Tap!)....his portrayal of Fear was excellent.

This episode really had the Roddenberry message - a moral fable - and reminded me very much of TOS - also the use of colour (not talking just about the costumes) made it also very TOS-like.

Overall, one of Voyagers best episodes.
henbane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2010, 06:09 PM   #13
Shatnertage
Rear Admiral
 
Shatnertage's Avatar
 
Location: Ward Fowler's gofer.
View Shatnertage's Twitter Profile
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

OK, last night's episode was..."Tuvix."

This is our immediate reaction after the credits rolled:
Me: "Wow."
Her: "That was the best episode of Voyager I've seen yet."
Me: "That might be the best episode of Trek I've seen."

To sound totally pretentious, it featured a bravura performance by Mulgrew as Janeway, and another one from the actor who played Tuvix. I thought Mulgrew was particularly strong in the Janeway/Kes scene...showed a lot of nuance, but also an underlying strength. I can see why people like the actor and the character so much.

About the story....My wife thought that Tuvix was right, and that it was wrong to kill him to bring back Tuvok and Neelix (she also liked the name "Neevok" better). I'm still not sure what the right thing to do was.

I'll say this: once Janeway made her decision, she was an absolute bulldog. Nothing was going to stop her from doing what she thought was right.

For me it was a great episode because it made a big point, but not the usual, obvious, trite message like "hatred is bad." It posed a real ethical dilemma that I don't think has a correct solution. In other words, the same basic idea as several TOS and TNG stories, just executed in a more thoughtful way. It reminded me of Worf refusing to give his blood to the Romulan in (I forget the name--the one where Geordi and the Romulan reprise Enemy Mine).

My only criticism is that maybe they should have drawn this out for a few more episodes, to let the audience get as attached to Tuvix as the crew, who spent a month or so (?) around him. And that I thought it was incredibly cruel to have Kes present in sickbay when they did "the procedure."

So two "high concept" episodes in a row, and two big wins, as far as I'm concerned.

Any thoughts on "Tuvix?"
__________________
I don't say 'sabotage.' You say 'sabotage.' I say 'sabataage."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlOTRxt-dIw
Shatnertage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2010, 06:20 PM   #14
T.D. Possum
Commodore
 
T.D. Possum's Avatar
 
Location: Jelly Fridge
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

I think you will find that everyone has thoughts on "Tuvix".

Summary of my opinions: It is, indeed, one of the best episodes of Voyager and Trek in general. This, despite the fact that the psuedo science was outrageously stupid. I agree that it was very well acted. As a veiwer, I thought Janeway was wrong, but I still love her. My favorite thing about this episode is imagining how the various members of the crew reacted once they learned that Janeway had killed Tuvix.

ETA: Oh, yeah, and I think this episode should have involved the separation of "Smones", a crewman made from the fusion of Ensign Smith and Crewman Jones. In that situation, there would be no absolute need to regain the two separate characters, since they would not have been played by contracted star actors. This would have added a lot of suspense.
T.D. Possum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2010, 10:03 PM   #15
vas2009
Captain
 
vas2009's Avatar
 
Location: Wherever you go, there you are.
Re: Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

The Thaw

Classic Janeway I loved it

CLOWN: I’m afraid.
JANEWAY: I know...

My favorite part Just shows how awesome Janeway is.

Tuvix


This is one of those no win situations. I personally agree with her and would hope she would be the one to make the call if it was me trapped with Neelix... or anyone. There was no way Janeway loved her Job at this point and no one was envious of her either.

I do understand why others would think differently... but as Chakotay would say...she's the Captain.
__________________
JANEWAY: We have to out-Ferengi the Ferengi.
Advatar by B'Elanna
vas2009 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:09 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.