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Old March 25 2013, 08:02 AM   #856
sojourner
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Really? I thought Ryan just played Ryan in that movie.
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Old March 25 2013, 08:15 AM   #857
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Dantheman wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Have they ever considered or asked Bruce Timm to get involved with live action DC movies?
Does Timm do live action? If so I would love to see this.
I think Warner Bros. has always maintained a "Let the cartoon people do their thing, and we'll do our thing" when it comes to live-action projects.

It's also pretty telling back when Batman and Robin was released, they delayed the direct-to-video animated Sub-Zero movie (which also had Mr. Freeze and Batgirl) several months because Sub-Zero was a better movie than B&R, and WB didn't want to be upstaged by an "inferior"
project. This is even more galling when you realize there was B&R merchandise released that has the movie characters done up in an animated style!
How different would writing & directing be for animation compared to live action? I would think it would be pretty much the some before and after the animators have done their thing. I've always been kind of surprised how little crossover their seems to be with the two styles.
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Old March 25 2013, 11:01 AM   #858
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

JD wrote: View Post
How different would writing & directing be for animation compared to live action? I would think it would be pretty much the some before and after the animators have done their thing. I've always been kind of surprised how little crossover their seems to be with the two styles.
Except that animation writing and directing is more art-driven. Live-action writing begins with the script, and storyboards/animatics come later and are even optional. Animation writing/plotting often happens mostly in storyboard form, and the artists/animators are the ones driving the process rather than following someone else's lead.

Although the case can be made that many live-action feature-film directors work a similar way, spearheading the process with their ideas of what scenes and set pieces they want to feature, with the scriptwriters simply there to follow their instructions and piece those elements together.

But animation is still a different visual language with different mechanics and details. You have far finer control over every detail of image and motion, yet conversely there's much less room for improvisation and spontaneity. Great care has to be put into designing and creating things that can just be pointed at and photographed in live action. Everything has to be planned out on a much more granular, frame-by-frame level, and everything is made from scratch. It's a very different experience.

Of course, animators can make the transition to live action quite successfully. Tim Burton began as an animator. Brad Bird, I felt, did a great job directing Mission: Impossible -- Ghost Protocol, his first live-action film, and I noticed ways in which his experience and sensibilities as an animator helped him do interesting things with the film, not just in terms of look but in terms of story details, the progression of actions and gags, things like that. The kind of structural precision that comes from experience in the meticulous field of animation where every last detail has to be worked out in advance.

Plus there's the fact that modern action movies are increasingly becoming part-animated anyway. CG special effects are essentially just cartoons with a photorealistic design aesthetic. So experience directing animation can definitely be useful for directing a CG-heavy film.
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Old March 25 2013, 12:30 PM   #859
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

^Not arguing with you (Bird is the perfect example of how such a background can be useful when doing live-action movies), but of course, there's the infamous example of Andrew Stanton with John Carter, to show how it can work the opposite way. Didn't the movie run over budget because Stanton insisted on redoing things much like he could have done (more cheaply) with an animated movie?
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Old March 25 2013, 01:28 PM   #860
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I think John Carter was a fantastic movie, aside from an overly cluttered plot and weakly paced opening. I don't agree at all that Stanton was a failure as a live-action director. I think the film's failure had more to do with the new Disney regime not supporting the project and giving it minimal promotion, and maybe with some editing problems in those opening scenes. Stanton did great work and I hope the film's reputation doesn't ruin his chances of doing more.
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Old March 25 2013, 02:40 PM   #861
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I enjoyed John Carter quite a bit. I actually found it's multiple framing stories quite unique and almost mysterious. They gave the film some credibility it probably wouldn't have had. I blame the film's failure on both Disney and the - actually - the audiences who seem to want only what they are familiar with in name and style.
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Old March 25 2013, 02:43 PM   #862
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Stanton is a pretty egregious case of arrogance and under-preparation. A large part of Pixar's storied reputation is due to the fact that, since they don't have to work around actors' schedules and the logistical difficulties of filming, they can keep tweaking their projects until they're satisfied. A large part of WALL-E's third act was completely redone, for example, and from what I've read no one ever really got a handle on the story for Brave.

The New Yorker ran a long profile on Stanton last year, and since he lives in my home county (but isn't a native), I hate to say it, but he came across as a first-class pompous ass, all but bragging that he'd told Disney execs from the get-go that John Carter reshoots would be necessary, as he "wouldn't get it right" on his first pass. Well, he didn't get it anywhere close to right on the second pass, either. As with most movies, the original sin was (his) lousy script.

And while I don't doubt, on the basis of the evidence, that Bird is a much better live-action director than Stanton, it's worth noting that Bird has neither screenwriting nor story credit on Ghost Protocol.
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Old March 25 2013, 02:57 PM   #863
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Uh, I don't think Stanton did Brave.
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Old March 25 2013, 08:18 PM   #864
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Christopher wrote: View Post
I think John Carter was a fantastic movie, aside from an overly cluttered plot and weakly paced opening. I don't agree at all that Stanton was a failure as a live-action director. I think the film's failure had more to do with the new Disney regime not supporting the project and giving it minimal promotion, and maybe with some editing problems in those opening scenes. Stanton did great work and I hope the film's reputation doesn't ruin his chances of doing more.
I haven't seen the film and wasn't intending to offer a view on its merits. My point was simply that I believe that Stanton's insistence on filming it in the same way as he would have done an animated movie proved to be expensive and problematic for the studio.
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Old March 25 2013, 08:31 PM   #865
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I enjoyed John Carter quite a bit. I actually found it's multiple framing stories quite unique and almost mysterious. They gave the film some credibility it probably wouldn't have had. I blame the film's failure on both Disney and the - actually - the audiences who seem to want only what they are familiar with in name and style.

I own it on DVD an enjoy it quite a bit. Sure it has some flaws but there are far worse movies out there.
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Old March 26 2013, 01:07 AM   #866
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I loved John Carter when I saw it in theaters, and I would love to see Stanton direct some more live action stuff like it. I blame it's failure on Disney's poor marketing and lack of support.
Christopher wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
How different would writing & directing be for animation compared to live action? I would think it would be pretty much the some before and after the animators have done their thing. I've always been kind of surprised how little crossover their seems to be with the two styles.
Except that animation writing and directing is more art-driven. Live-action writing begins with the script, and storyboards/animatics come later and are even optional. Animation writing/plotting often happens mostly in storyboard form, and the artists/animators are the ones driving the process rather than following someone else's lead.

Although the case can be made that many live-action feature-film directors work a similar way, spearheading the process with their ideas of what scenes and set pieces they want to feature, with the scriptwriters simply there to follow their instructions and piece those elements together.

But animation is still a different visual language with different mechanics and details. You have far finer control over every detail of image and motion, yet conversely there's much less room for improvisation and spontaneity. Great care has to be put into designing and creating things that can just be pointed at and photographed in live action. Everything has to be planned out on a much more granular, frame-by-frame level, and everything is made from scratch. It's a very different experience.

Of course, animators can make the transition to live action quite successfully. Tim Burton began as an animator. Brad Bird, I felt, did a great job directing Mission: Impossible -- Ghost Protocol, his first live-action film, and I noticed ways in which his experience and sensibilities as an animator helped him do interesting things with the film, not just in terms of look but in terms of story details, the progression of actions and gags, things like that. The kind of structural precision that comes from experience in the meticulous field of animation where every last detail has to be worked out in advance.

Plus there's the fact that modern action movies are increasingly becoming part-animated anyway. CG special effects are essentially just cartoons with a photorealistic design aesthetic. So experience directing animation can definitely be useful for directing a CG-heavy film.
I didn't realize that the creation process was that different. I guess I was thinking more of what we see on screen, and didn't really consider what goes into putting those images on the screen.
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Old March 26 2013, 01:17 AM   #867
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Uh, I don't think Stanton did Brave.
He did not. It was directed by Mark Andrews and Brenda Chapman, and written by them, Steve Purcell, and Irene Mecchi.
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Old March 26 2013, 03:42 AM   #868
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

^ Quite. But a careful reading of my paragraph will show that I never suggested that he did.
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Old March 26 2013, 04:06 AM   #869
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

^But it's easy to see how the paragraph gives that impression, since it's in the middle of a discussion about Stanton without any clear markers of a change in focus.
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