RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,509
Posts: 5,511,550
Members: 25,136
Currently online: 554
Newest member: dorjthibo12

TrekToday headlines

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 4 2012, 09:12 PM   #46
MauriceNavidad
Vice Admiral
 
MauriceNavidad's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View MauriceNavidad's Twitter Profile
Re: Revisiting the films...

re TMP I suspect some of the ugliness in the scriptwriting process tainted Roddenberry as much as the production overruns. The management at Paramount had to be quite aware of the endless Michelson-Roddenberry battles over the script and the problems that resulted.
__________________
* * *
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.”
― Winston S. Churchill
MauriceNavidad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2012, 10:03 PM   #47
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Revisiting the films...

The production overruns were pretty much unavoidable. First Paramount wants a series and spends a boatload of money on it. Then they switch gears and want a feature film. All the production costs (and other things) spent on the series is wasted money because it's unsuitable for a feature film so they have to start again almost from scratch.

But the real failure is not having a finished script before going ahead with anything else. That was begging for trouble.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2012, 10:12 PM   #48
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Revisiting the films...

The costs from previous aborted productions certainly contributed to the immense cost of the production, but by many accounts Roddenberry was a rather lousy producer on the movie (partly as a result, no doubt, of his constant re-writing of the ever-changing script) often absent when he was needed.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2012, 10:15 PM   #49
Shazam!
Rear Admiral
 
Shazam!'s Avatar
 
Re: Revisiting the films...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
The other neat thing is the nice looking Regula One station.
Wasn't that the station in TMP but turned upside down?
Shazam! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2012, 10:15 PM   #50
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Revisiting the films...

^^
Yep. It's simply the orbital office from the previous film, upside down (with some slight modifications...I think).
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2012, 11:55 PM   #51
MauriceNavidad
Vice Admiral
 
MauriceNavidad's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View MauriceNavidad's Twitter Profile
Re: Revisiting the films...

Harvey wrote: View Post
The costs from previous aborted productions certainly contributed to the immense cost of the production, but by many accounts Roddenberry was a rather lousy producer on the movie (partly as a result, no doubt, of his constant re-writing of the ever-changing script) often absent when he was needed.
I'm not aware of these absences, but the script was THE problem. Roddenberry's meddling aside, the fact that Paramount announced and locked in the date of a feature film with a name director before the script problems had been licked was a serious misstep, even if I understand it from a cost perspective (sets already built, soundstages occupied, etc., so the thing was costing them money every day they weren't shooting).

Re Regula I, yes it was the TMP Space Office complex, flipped over with the top and some of the office pods removed, and a put extra details (like the observatory dome) tacked on.
__________________
* * *
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.”
― Winston S. Churchill
MauriceNavidad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2012, 12:38 AM   #52
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Revisiting the films...

Star Trek III - The Search For Spock (1984) ***

Kirk defies orders and goes back to the Genesis planet to retrieve Spock.

This is very much a direct follow to The Wrath Of Khan. The beginning is slow and it takes awhile for things to get really going.

Funny, but the Enterprise looks a lot more damaged and beat up than it does at the end of TWOK. It’s also not photographed as well as the previous two films. It’s far too brightly lighted and without sufficient shadows. Actually I’m not fond of quite a few effects in this movie. The blurring Enterprise at speed looks really cheesy. A phaser beam that can hurl someone over through the air??? While there are some nice shots, particularly some of the Vulcan scenes, this film doesn’t look as polished as the previous two.

It’s also hard to credit that this story is supposed to take place immediately after TWOK as the characters look distinctly different. Scotty looks like he’s put on weight and Uhura is sporting a completely different hairstyle.

We next get a really big continuity gaffe as Admiral Morrow states the Enterprise is twenty years old and slated to be decommissioned. WTF??? The ship is actually easily thirty and it was extensively refit only ten years ago. My, things get obsolete fast in this Starfleet. On the flip side we get top see two new starship designs: the pregnant guppy looking Excelsior and the dopey looking Grissom that is challenged in terms of visual balance. Yeah, we’re modernizing.

I also have to say I don’t care much for Robin Curtiss as Saavik. She isn’t horrible, but she’s just flat and doesn’t have Kirstie Allie’s nuance. Captain Esteban of the Grissom comes across as a real putz. Actually most of the characters in this other than the main cast don’t really come off well.

And WHO designed the costumes in this film? They all look like slightly updated variations of what people in the ‘50s thought people might dress like in the future. Whose idea to put those stupid looking hats on Starfleet security. And who the hell designed Chekov’s civilian clothing? Seriously, WTF??? McCoy’s bar scene looks REALLY ‘80s and it’s a cheesy looking set with cheesy looking aliens and costumes.

It gets mildly interesting when Sarek appears, but this film doesn’t really get going until Kirk and gang steal the Enterprise. Interesting, though, that only four or five people can run her even on automatic when we were once told that a starship couldn’t be run even with a crew of twenty. Starfleet officers look really bad in this film. No one outside of the Enterprise crew comes across well or even competent. They all seem so close-minded and unimaginative.

There are quite a few decent character moments throughout this film, particularly during the latter half. Kirk’s reaction to David’s death is moving. The hand-to-hand fight between Kirk and Kruge is okay and I like Kirk kicking Kruge off the cliff edge. The ending scene with Spock’s memory just beginning to return is really the payoff for the whole movie. The main theme is essentially the same music as used in TWOK yet there are some new pieces and some of them are quite nice. The music accompanying the theft of the Enterprise as well as the battle between the Enterprise and the Klingon Bird of Prey are particularly good.

In the end it’s an okay outing, but just isn’t on par with better work we’ve seen in TOS and the first two films. While technically I’m rating it the same as TWOK I have to give TWOK the nod for feeling a bit more polished overall.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?

Last edited by Warped9; June 8 2012 at 04:17 AM.
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2012, 01:12 AM   #53
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Revisiting the films...

As far as the automation goes, it's been twenty years. There had to be some advances in streamlining starship control.

I've always liked this film. It brought some of the fun factor of TOS to the big screen outings.
__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2012, 01:31 AM   #54
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Revisiting the films...

BillJ wrote: View Post
It brought some of the fun factor of TOS to the big screen outings.
Yes, I can't argue that. It's part of that, through the characters, that works for this movie and makes it bearable.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2012, 03:09 AM   #55
MauriceNavidad
Vice Admiral
 
MauriceNavidad's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View MauriceNavidad's Twitter Profile
Re: Revisiting the films...

As to the VFX in ST3 I this is the film where the effects go wholly ILM style and it shows. In TWOK there's still a nod to the style of TMP in terms of the lighting on the Enterprise (notably in the sneak attack sequence), but by this movie they've fully dulled down the Enterprise and are shooting it like Star Wars model. Minus Probert and Mike Minor we start getting starships minus key features like warp nacelles, etc. There's some really sloppy slapdash work in the film, like the explosion of the E's bridge, which is clearly sitting on a flat table and not a saucer, and the closeup of the torpedo launcher wherein you can see they superimposed a shot of the saucer over the partial model and completely misaligned it.
__________________
* * *
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.”
― Winston S. Churchill
MauriceNavidad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2012, 03:57 AM   #56
EliyahuQeoni
Commodore
 
EliyahuQeoni's Avatar
 
Location: Redmond, Oregon, United States of America, North America, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe
View EliyahuQeoni's Twitter Profile
Re: Revisiting the films...

The music playing while they steal the Enterprise is among my all time favorite Trek pieces. Great stuff.

The film does have its flaws, but I've always had a soft spot for it.
__________________
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy
EliyahuQeoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2012, 04:05 PM   #57
Cap'n Claus
Rear Admiral
 
Cap'n Claus's Avatar
 
Location: ssosmcin
Re: Revisiting the films...

This is my favorite film of the 11+. It has a huge heart, gives everyone something to do, has Shatner's best work, and sports a beautiful companion score to TWOK. I love this film without reservation or apology, it just moved me from the first time I saw it opening night. It was the first film to show just how much these people mean to each other and the last where everything was played straight. After this, TVH would be a comedy and the final two TOS film would just take the characters too lightly, as if they had to poke fun to make up for their advancing age rather than dealing with it. Star Trek 6 had humor just as broad and distracting as Trek 5.

This was also the last film where I felt Shatner was really playing "older Kirk" rather than "Shatner in a costume." The humor is all character based and appropriate, there's a feeling of maturity, again for the last time, and real risk here. I'll always prefer the first 3 films because of this maturity and the efforts to take it seriously. The first 3 felt like they were made for the fans while the last 3 were obviously tilted toward crossover appeal (Paramount: "keep it funny, that's how we got non-fans to see the one with the whales!")
__________________
"Tranya is people!"
Cap'n Claus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2012, 04:28 PM   #58
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Revisiting the films...

Well the twenty year line I suspect has more to do with when ST was produced as between the film being produced as it would be slightly under twenty years.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2012, 05:57 PM   #59
susanmary428
Ensign
 
Location: Connecticut
View susanmary428's Twitter Profile
Re: Revisiting the films...

I think TSFS is a natural companion to TWOK, obviously, and I think some of the criticisms given above are a bit unfair. To say that McCoy's cafe scene was very 80's is a bit redundant, because let's be fair, it was made smack-dab in the middle of a very 80's decade. It isn't fair to judge the costumes or effects on a nearly 30 year old movie based on what we're used to seeing in movies or television today. And until you mentioned it, it had never crossed my mind that Scotty was heavier in TSFS than he was in TWOK. Was it really impossible for Uhura to change her hair on the ship? They have personal time, right?

I don't know, maybe it makes me less of a Star Trek fan that I haven't paid attention to those details. But does anybody stop and say, "Hey, that model was clearly on a table when that explosion happened, but it was 1984 and this is a great movie"?
susanmary428 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2012, 07:33 PM   #60
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Revisiting the films...

Somethings can look dated and it doesn't bother you. And then some other things can look dated and it really jumps out at you. For some reason parts of TSFS look more obviously dated than parts of TWOK. I'm just calling out what I'm seeing.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:13 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.