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View Poll Results: Prometheus - Poll
A + 16 6.90%
A 27 11.64%
A - 32 13.79%
B + 43 18.53%
B 33 14.22%
B - 21 9.05%
C + 19 8.19%
C 8 3.45%
C - 15 6.47%
D 12 5.17%
F 6 2.59%
Voters: 232. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 17 2012, 06:10 AM   #556
The Mighty Monkey of Mim
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I don't think David did know what would happen. He was more likely improvising compelled by Weyland ordering him to "try harder." What this scene underscores, just as it did in Alien, is that these replicants aren't governed by Asimovian principles.
Samurai8472 wrote: View Post
Snick27 wrote: View Post
Really how did David know any of that would happen unless he read it somewhere.
He didn't. He's fueled by his childlike curiosity.


"What will happen if I I stick my black goo covered finger into this guys cup?"

*All hell breaks loose*

David- Ah interesting.
I agree with these posts. Much of the human behavior in this film makes little sense, but not so much in the case of David.
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Old June 17 2012, 09:46 AM   #557
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Starbreaker wrote: View Post
Snick27 wrote: View Post
Ive never really seem any of the Aliens movies except AVP. So dont know much about its history.
Yeah, you're missing out on some really good films. AVP was trash.
Trash? Nah, that would be more aptly attributed to either AvP: Requiem or Alien: Resurrection with that walking white testicle.

BANZAI!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old June 17 2012, 11:47 AM   #558
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

This year we've had and we'll get a few more good and entertaining films. Avengers was the one with the big splash and it remains to see how well TDKR will do. But Avengers is the monster success of the year (so far) yet as big as it was and as entertaining as it was (and I quite enjoyed it) after seeing it and gabbing about it for a day or two it was done. There really wasn't anything more to say.

Prometheus is different. This is much more the kind of film I'm interested in. I get why it doesn't work for some even though I don't agree. Basically I hear a lot of, "I don't like it because I don't understand why it was done this way." So the question boils done to is it simply a bad film or is it something a lot of people didn't expect?

Some folks wanted more of a direct prequel. Some wanted less of a direct prequel. Some wanted to to see the familiar Giger creature. Some wanted something else. So again is it the film's fault or is the basis of criticism based on expectations brought into the theatre?

I think it boils down to a lot of people wanting something simpler overall with more straightforward answers and simpler situations.

That's not the kind of film Ridley Scott wanted to make. He didn't want to give away all the answers out in the open. He wanted a different viewer experience. He wanted people to think this over and talk about it.

I'd say he succeeded.
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Old June 17 2012, 11:54 AM   #559
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Prometheus is different. This is much more the kind of film I'm interested in. I get why it doesn't work for some even though I don't agree. Basically I hear a lot of, "I don't like it because I don't understand why it was done this way." So the question boils done to is it simply a bad film or is it something a lot of people didn't expect?

<SNIP>

I think it boils down to a lot of people wanting something simpler overall with more straightforward answers and simpler situations.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say to this that I think there is a large difference between wanting characters who do not behave in dramatically arbitrary ways, and wanting something "simpler" or wanting something more "straightforward." Something can be complex and not straightforward without being irrational or dramatically arbitrary.
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Old June 17 2012, 01:31 PM   #560
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Sci wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Prometheus is different. This is much more the kind of film I'm interested in. I get why it doesn't work for some even though I don't agree. Basically I hear a lot of, "I don't like it because I don't understand why it was done this way." So the question boils done to is it simply a bad film or is it something a lot of people didn't expect?

<SNIP>

I think it boils down to a lot of people wanting something simpler overall with more straightforward answers and simpler situations.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say to this that I think there is a large difference between wanting characters who do not behave in dramatically arbitrary ways, and wanting something "simpler" or wanting something more "straightforward." Something can be complex and not straightforward without being irrational or dramatically arbitrary.
I agree. It was purely the characterisation that annoyed me. The premise is intriguing, the movie was visually striking, the unanswered questions are fine, the android was perfectly portrayed (and could have been more of a catalyst for the dramatic scenes without the need for the other characters to behave so dumb and schlocky) etc. It was just the human characters that were written very very badly.
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Old June 17 2012, 03:05 PM   #561
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

I would say the biggest criticism, or most recurring, regards the behaviour of the characters. I think it really boils down to them not behaving as expected or more specifically as professionals.

Fiction allows us to fashion something of an idealized version of reality, one where we can accept characters that are larger than life or at least certainly better than our real experience. Indeed we almost always expect that from fictional characters. They're often expected to reflect more of who we'd like to be rather than what we're really like. This is certainly true in shows and films depicting cops and lawyers. Cop and lawyers stories rarely depict these worlds in a very realistic way. In the real world there's a lot of mundanity and routine that at best is only hinted at in film and television. For the longest time Westerns painted a very idealized portrait of the Old West and the people who inhabited it. It wasn't until the '60s that we started to get films that began showing the grit and shades of grey of that time. Now we applaud films that shows us more of the reality, but at one time it could be jarring for some audiences.

In the real world it's not uncommon for us to question the choices made by governments and business and organizations particularly in regard to seemingly unsuitable individuals posted to positions of great responsibility. I'd say it happens often that people who should know better still make bad choices and do stupid things.

When I look at the crew of the Prometheus I find myself thinking, "Who chose these losers? By what standards were they judged by? What idiot is running this operation?"

At the core of this, of course, is Peter Weyland's agenda for the mission. He was willing to invest a trillion dollars to what end? He wanted advanced science and technology to prolong his own life. There was no real nobility or ideal in his pursuit. Granted if he'd found what he'd wanted it could have had a spillover effect for others back on Earth, but that wasn't his conscious intent. He was focused solely on prolonging his own existence.

The inclusion of Shaw and Holloway gave the expedition a veneer of idealism or nobility of intent: the expedition was to (hopefully) make contact with extraterrestrial intelligence and possibly explore the origins of human life on Earth. That really sounds like a genuine Star Trek story. But Weyland Industries isn't Starfleet and its goal is not simply to seek out new life and new civilizations.

And so beyond Shaw and Holloway (who may be decent scientists in their own right though not necessarily suited for such an expedition) why were the other individuals included? None of them looked like the kind of individuals you would really want on such an expedition. Perhaps they were yet again just a way to give the expedition a veneer of noble purpose? Perhaps it didn't matter they were total screw-ups as scientists (and indeed they were)? The same could be said of the choice of Janek and his crew. Janek and his crew were simply meant to be truck drivers and with no expectations beyond that.

Who is at fault for why practically everyone dies in this story? I'd say it was Peter Weyland because he was blind to everything else beyond his not wanting to die. He initiated a situation that put completely unsuitable people into a place they had no business being. After spending a trillion dollars for such a monumental venture he went cheap on the hired help. Now that likely wouldn't happen in a Star Trek like story, but it has been known to happen in the real world. And films like Alien and Prometheus are supposedly the SF equivalents of films like The Good, The Bad And The Ugly, Pale Rider, True Grit, Dances With Wolves, Unforgiven, 3:10 To Yuma and Appaloosa. Perhaps a closer equivalent would be a film like Outland from 1981 with Sean Connery, the SF equivalent of High Noon.

Now what I posited above is how I could interpret what I saw in the film. That said I hope they use a different writer for the sequel. And hopefully the sequel will address some of the questions in Prometheus: what did things happen the way they did? Perhaps some of those answers might also be in the deleted scenes to be included in the disc release later this year.
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Old June 17 2012, 04:16 PM   #562
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Yeah, the 'trained' professionals characterization was one that I concur, was not very well done. Though only the biologist really bothered me - the geologist acted very believably in my mind - what the hell am I doing here? Don't you see this is friggin' DANGEROUS?

His buddy, who wants to handle exolife in the middle of a tomb where the most prominent characteristic is everyone died under mysterious circumstances, pushes past the bounds of credibility.

The silly thing is you didn't even have to write the scene that way to get the same effect. He could have taken every procedure and still gotten killed. I think there was an element of the writer wanting the audience to react with a very visceral 'don't do that you fool!' But it didn't work.

I've got no problem with David experimenting with Holloway. I felt that was completely appropriate.
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Old June 17 2012, 04:59 PM   #563
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Here's another take on the stupid scientists thing.... they were a pair of crazy alien astronaut theorists that nobody took seriously. They were not respected professionals

Weyland was not hiring the best and the brightest, he was hiring disgruntled and disgraced scientists who would actually be willing to take a deep space voyage having absolutely no idea what it was about. He didn't care about scientific procedure.
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Old June 17 2012, 05:06 PM   #564
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Mr Light wrote: View Post
Here's another take on the stupid scientists thing.... they were a pair of crazy alien astronaut theorists that nobody took seriously. They were not respected professionals

Weyland was not hiring the best and the brightest, he was hiring disgruntled and disgraced scientists who would actually be willing to take a deep space voyage having absolutely no idea what it was about. He didn't care about scientific procedure.
Thats actually not a bad take on it.

Within the next six months or less we'll get the BluRay and DVD releases. On there I'm hoping for at least two things: some extra footage, either added to an extended cut or included as deleted scenes, and more in-depth materiel on the thinking that went into this film.
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Old June 17 2012, 05:09 PM   #565
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

No one knew what the mission was, who the leads were, Weyland seems to be a well respected and profitable company, and they're spending trillions on the mission... Why exactly would they have to be hiring idiots?
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Old June 17 2012, 05:11 PM   #566
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Bob the Skutter wrote: View Post
Why exactly would they have to be hiring idiots?
Perhaps the biggest question in the film. The other questions aren't nearly as puzzling as this one.
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Old June 17 2012, 05:15 PM   #567
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

I'm sure this has been posted but still worth watching... Spoilers by the way...

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Old June 17 2012, 05:40 PM   #568
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Bob the Skutter wrote: View Post
No one knew what the mission was, who the leads were, Weyland seems to be a well respected and profitable company, and they're spending trillions on the mission... Why exactly would they have to be hiring idiots?
Idiots are always preferentially hired over non-idiots. This is because the people doing the hiring are usually idiots. Like begets like.
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Old June 17 2012, 06:37 PM   #569
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Well, again, I think there has to be some allowance for the fact that a real scientific survey mission, with a bunch of professionals who all get along and follow proper procedures every step of the way, just wouldn't be nearly as exciting to watch. In a scifi thriller you're going to have to have people butting heads with each other and making boneheaded decisions.

Yeah I agree there were a few moments that were stupid beyond words (removing the helmets, trying to pet the alien snake), but it feels like people are nitpicking this movie and it's characters a LOT more than they would for any other scifi movie.
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Old June 17 2012, 07:26 PM   #570
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

davejames wrote: View Post
...it feels like people are nitpicking this movie and it's characters a LOT more than they would for any other scifi movie.
That isn't that surprising. There was a lot of anticipation and heightened expectations for this film. I suppose it could be akin to post coital depression or the reality of a threesome compared with the fantasy.

That's it? That's all there is to it?"




Now try to imagine what it might have been like if this film could have been snuck in under the radar, if practically no one knew anything about it until maybe a week or so before it was released. The reception might have been quite different.
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