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Old May 29 2012, 09:37 AM   #16
Vassa
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

And you, of course, have the superior morality. and possess absolute knowledge of how the future is supposed to be to make a decision about who is worth saving and who should die off.

The Prime Directive is more about hubris then anything at all.

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Old May 29 2012, 09:43 AM   #17
Jar Jar Binks
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

Then the episode should have been about the crew making a mistake and creating an unsolvable problem for the Valakians. That would have given Archer and crew a real reason to adopt a Prime Directive-like protocol in the future.
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Old May 29 2012, 09:50 AM   #18
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

Sometimes the problems can't be solved in 5 minutes with a warm fuzzy feeling of satisfaction with a job well done.

Last edited by Vassa; May 29 2012 at 09:51 AM. Reason: grammer
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Old May 29 2012, 09:56 AM   #19
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

Vassa wrote: View Post
Sometimes the problems can't be solved in 5 minutes with a warm fuzzy feeling of satisfaction with a job well done.
You mean like Archer and Phlox did?
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Old May 29 2012, 10:10 AM   #20
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

Could you be more specific? It's been awhile since I've watched the episode and I don't recall anybody being happy about letting a species die off due to defects in their DNA.
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Old May 29 2012, 10:26 AM   #21
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

Mach5 wrote: View Post
Skywalker wrote: View Post
Dear Doctor Phlox,
TheGodBen wrote: View Post

EVOLUTION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! GOODNIGHT!
That is all.
Second.
How exactly did the story of this episode misunderstand evolution? I remember a few episodes of TNG and VOY where whoever wrote them didn't seem to understand the theory but I didn't see those problems with this particular episode. It's been a few years since I've seen it so maybe I'm forgetting something stupid?
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Old May 29 2012, 10:41 AM   #22
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

Vassa wrote: View Post
Could you be more specific? It's been awhile since I've watched the episode and I don't recall anybody being happy about letting a species die off due to defects in their DNA.
Were they happy with themselves? No. But did they take the time to seriously consider the implications of their decision? Not really.
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Old May 29 2012, 10:49 AM   #23
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

How can an episode be morally bankrupt? And why do people assume the writers think the decision Archer made is the morally right decision?

People watch movies in which people make morally wrong decisions all the time. Why is Star Trek different? Is it because we expect ST characters to be moral saints? It's a TV show, not a moral guideline to live our lives by.

Mach5 wrote: View Post
Miss Lemon wrote: View Post
Great way to start a thoughtful discussion.
I like to start with a bang from now and then.
I'm sure you like to think you that you do, but I was actually referring to the OP.
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Last edited by Miss Lemon; May 29 2012 at 11:04 AM.
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Old May 29 2012, 10:57 AM   #24
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

Miss Lemon wrote: View Post
How can an episode be morally bankrupt? And why do people assume the writers think the decision Archer made is the morally right decision?

People watch movies in which people make morally wrong decisions all the time. Why is this Star Trek episode different? Is it because we expect ST characters to be moral saints?
It's Gene Roddenberry's fault.

This aint no NuBSG.
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Old May 29 2012, 11:02 AM   #25
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

Kirk had strong views and things he was passionate about, but he was no moral saint.
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Old May 29 2012, 11:03 AM   #26
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

But did they take the time to seriously consider the implications of their decision? Not really.


We could go all the way back and ask, did Archer really give enough thought about the implications of saving the Valakians on the ship?

A good chunk of the Prime Directive is self-defense, too.

A warp capable species just might decide to show up and kill you.

Conversely, how much of your resources are you going to spend on a species to keep it alive? Are you going to do the same for each and every species that asks for help? Where do you draw the line?

Last edited by Vassa; May 29 2012 at 11:21 AM. Reason: grammer
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Old May 29 2012, 11:52 AM   #27
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

Vassa wrote: View Post

Conversely, how much of your resources are you going to spend on a species to keep it alive? Are you going to do the same for each and every species that asks for help? Where do you draw the line?
Well it only took Phlox a couple days to solve the dilemma and there was no hint of any long term costs for Starfleet.
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Old May 29 2012, 12:07 PM   #28
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

Skywalker wrote: View Post
Dear Doctor Phlox,
TheGodBen wrote: View Post
EVOLUTION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! GOODNIGHT!
That is all.
This may make his decision misinformed, but not necessarily immoral.
Likewise, one could argue the decision Archer made was morally wrong, even if evolution worked that way.

What I find interesting about Phlox is that he has very peculiar moral values. I believe that most human physicians would have feel obliged to cure those people because of their Hippocratic Oath. There has been one other example of this divergence, but I can't remember in which episode right now. It should be clear however that Phlox has a rather unorthodox approach to patient privacy and confidentiality compared to our standards.
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Last edited by Miss Lemon; May 29 2012 at 12:27 PM.
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Old May 29 2012, 12:31 PM   #29
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

BillJ wrote: View Post
Vassa wrote: View Post

Conversely, how much of your resources are you going to spend on a species to keep it alive? Are you going to do the same for each and every species that asks for help? Where do you draw the line?
Well it only took Phlox a couple days to solve the dilemma and there was no hint of any long term costs for Starfleet.
Yes, wasn't that fortunate? Could have taken decades. I guess now the Enterprise should also create the 50 million doses to treat everyone? Stick around make sure eveyone gets inoculated against their genetic defects? Make sure there aren't any other defects they can cure?


Meanwhile, the Valakians are begging for Warp Drive. Should Archer have given it to them? Maybe he should have just given them a few grams of anti-matter? Let them figure it out on their own?
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Old May 29 2012, 12:40 PM   #30
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Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

What I find puzzling is that the episode that is about Sisko making a decision that is generally considered to be morally wrong is commonly considered to be DS9's best.
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