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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old May 20 2012, 03:24 AM   #1
Wingsley
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TOS Warp Nacelles

I'm formulating a new theory on how the TOS-era warp nacelles are internally structured, and my musings (which I plan to post at a later date) made me curious:

If you look at Franz Joseph's drawings of the TOS-era nacelles for Class I starships in his 1973 blueprints of the Enterprise and his 1975 Technical Manual, I was wondering...

(1: Do FJ's overall measurements for the Class I nacelles correspond with "canon" (studio miniature) specs (or proportionally so) for the TOS Enterprise? Specifically, does the diameter and length of the nacelle seem to match with the "official" ship's overall measurements and proportions?

(2: Has anyone ever extrapolated the diameter of the partial spherical structure (FJ's drawing calls it a "space warp generator" in his cutaway drawing; but he calls it a "space energy matter source / field restoration in the tech manual) embedded in the aft nacelle caps? (Let's assume there's a sphere embedded in the nacelle there, only partially externally exposed; what would the diameter of the "whole" spheroid be?)



I'm also interested in the tech manual's specs for the shuttlecraft's nacelles.

(1: does anyone know if these drawings match up proportionately with either the studio's full-size mockup or the miniature?

(2: How big was the full-size mockup's nacelle, diameter-wise? Would the aft spherical structure cup a basketball or soccer-ball, or something larger or smaller?


Thanks in advance!

--W
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Old May 20 2012, 01:27 PM   #2
SchwEnt
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

FWIW, FJ TM has been "canonized" by some because his blueprints and illustrations appear on bridge viewer displays. I'll also point out that the background bridge comm chatter in the movies include status reports mentioning "space matrix restoration coils" and "main stage flux chillers, port and starboard" "intercooler status" and so on.

These are terms directly from his nacelle blueprints and used verbatim in TOS movies, if only as background comms. Does this further validate FJs work?
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Old May 20 2012, 02:38 PM   #3
Albertese
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

In general, the TM drawings are more based on Matt Jefferies drawings included in The making of Star Trek and on the proportions of the old AMT Enterprise model kit available in the late 60s and early 70's. (Which is subtly different from later releases.) Neither of these is a close match to the eleven foot filming miniature.

For a more definitive look at the measurements of the 11' model of TOS E, I usually default to the Alan Sinclar blueprints (as I happen to have them on my hard drive) but there are a few others who have had occasion to actually measure the model.

For the shuttlecraft exterior set mock-up, a fellow named Phil Broad measured the set piece back in 2003 or 2004 and released a very complete set of measured drawings of it. Search for that and you'll be in fine shape.


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Old May 20 2012, 05:23 PM   #4
TIN_MAN
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

The cross section plans for the nacelles (if I understand you correctly) are Geoffrey Mendel’s drawings, and he misunderstood FJ's usage of "space energy matter source/sink" and reduced it to merely a "matter acquisition" function (for the front) and "space warp generator" (for the back). In FJ's scheme (as in MJ's presumably) the entire nacelle is the space warp generator.

As for the nacelles on the ship and shuttle, I think the ship nacelles are about right, but possibly slightly shorter, but the shuttle nacelles are much smaller in diameter - being based as they are- mostly on the AMT kit of same?
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Old May 20 2012, 06:57 PM   #5
Wingsley
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

I've discovered one thing about these various drawings that drives me crazy.

If you look at the spheroid convex structure at the aft end of the TOS-era Enterprise nacelle, some side-profile drawings make it look like the curvature makes the convexity look like there really must be a sphere there; the underside curves back in to the point where it forms enough of a circular shape that the structure couldn't be much else. It's like a huge drop of water, dangling from the tip of the faucet. This appears to be the case with the Sinclair drawings. This is not clear on other drawings, particularly the original Matt Jefferies schematics shown in "The Enterprise Incident" briefing room scene.

Is there any way to address this conclusively?

The reason I ask is that my theory would address what is inside of that aft nacelle cap. It could be a spherical structure (from outside we would simply see part of it), but I was also thinking the sphere could be slightly distorted, with spherical fore- and aft-ends and a brief tubular mid-section.

Does anyone know of any closeup side-view photos of the TOS-era spherical section of the aft nacelle cap? Such an image would be very helpful.
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Last edited by Wingsley; May 20 2012 at 06:58 PM. Reason: typo
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Old May 20 2012, 07:22 PM   #6
Wingsley
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

I found photos here on Memory Alpha of a "faithful recreation" of the old studio model for DS9's "Trials and Tribbleations", and it seems to reinforce what I was saying about the sphere. It seems to be conclusive.

Any thoughts on this being the last word?
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Old May 21 2012, 01:00 AM   #7
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

http://smu.gs/KqyU9L

It looks like a sphere to me, at least looking at the 11' model at the Smithsonian.
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Old May 21 2012, 02:46 PM   #8
Albertese
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

Yeah, like I said, Sinclar's drawings are pretty good. The problems with them are extremely subtle and hard to find. For most purposes, I just go with them.

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Old May 24 2012, 02:45 PM   #9
Forbin
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

You can buy the shuttlecraft and measure it yourself now!
http://www.kikoauctions.com/?nav=auctions&details=2030
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Old May 24 2012, 03:51 PM   #10
Wingsley
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

You know what? While that thought is intriguing, I don't have alot of spare change right now. I think I'll pass. Thanks for passing it along though.
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Old May 24 2012, 07:05 PM   #11
yenny
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

Wingsley wrote: View Post
I've discovered one thing about these various drawings that drives me crazy.

If you look at the spheroid convex structure at the aft end of the TOS-era Enterprise nacelle, some side-profile drawings make it look like the curvature makes the convexity look like there really must be a sphere there; the underside curves back in to the point where it forms enough of a circular shape that the structure couldn't be much else. It's like a huge drop of water, dangling from the tip of the faucet. This appears to be the case with the Sinclair drawings. This is not clear on other drawings, particularly the original Matt Jefferies schematics shown in "The Enterprise Incident" briefing room scene.

Is there any way to address this conclusively?

The reason I ask is that my theory would address what is inside of that aft nacelle cap. It could be a spherical structure (from outside we would simply see part of it), but I was also thinking the sphere could be slightly distorted, with spherical fore- and aft-ends and a brief tubular mid-section.

Does anyone know of any closeup side-view photos of the TOS-era spherical section of the aft nacelle cap? Such an image would be very helpful.
The sphere shape object at the end of a Constitution starship nacelles. Is actually a covering which can be open and close. It will open up when the ship goes into warp and close up when the ship comes out of warp.
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Old May 25 2012, 03:11 AM   #12
Wingsley
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

^^ Based on what?
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Old May 25 2012, 03:41 AM   #13
Forbin
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

Probably based on the use of stock footage of the sphereless pilot version suddenly appearing at random during the show. Interesting rationalization, I guess.
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Old May 27 2012, 06:40 PM   #14
T'Girl
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

yenny wrote: View Post
The sphere shape object at the end of a Constitution starship nacelles. Is actually a covering which can be open and close. It will open up when the ship goes into warp and close up when the ship comes out of warp.
My thoughts (personal thoughts) on this is that the bubble forms when the warp drive is active (even if at sublight), and disappears when the drive is on stand-by or shut down. But it isn't a physical structure, it's a "field," like the larger - but invisible - warp envelope.

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Old May 27 2012, 10:52 PM   #15
Mytran
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Re: TOS Warp Nacelles

I like your bubble idea - covers a lot of bases concerning the switch between vents and balls. However, what about when the ship goes to warp (often at the end of an episode) but the vents are still clearly visible?
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