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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old December 17 2007, 05:25 PM   #1
Emperor-Tiberius
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TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"...

During which season, and inbetween which episodes, did each of these three TNG movies take place? I would like to know, to sort get a chronology between them and all.

Thank you in advance.
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Old December 17 2007, 05:54 PM   #2
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"...

All four films took place after the events of the TNG series. Generations is the closest chronologically, taking place the same year as the series finale. Then two years between it and First Contact, another two years with Insurrection - both of the latter films happening when Deep Space Nine and Voyager where on the air. A four year seperation from Insurrection to Nemesis, the last production set in the TNG era.

Their relationship to DS9 is as this: Generations took place between DS9 S2 and S3, witness the change of combadge from the TNG combadge to the GEN combadge. First Contact took place in S5, witness the change to the FC uniform that year. Insurrection probably took place in S7, which had a name-drop reference to the So'na and included the INS uniforms, though some argue the film was set in the middle of S6.
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Old December 17 2007, 06:04 PM   #3
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"...

Thats great, Kegek - though I knew already of the films's placement as far as TNG show is concerned.

I'm just daffled on how these movies fit with DS9, chronologically and all, and thought to ask to get a definitive answer?

I also heard different takes on INS, and I am still interested on seeing discussions expanding why both choices (in-S6 and in-S7) have merit and legitimacy.
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Old December 17 2007, 06:34 PM   #4
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"...

It was released around the same time as S7 or shortly before, if memory serves. It's certainly before the concluding arc, at which point the So'na were supplying ketracel-white to the Dominion and, of course, Worf would leave Starfleet. This is why it's usually assumed to have taken place at around S7, sometimes specifically during "It's Only a Paper Moon", an episode Worf appears in very briefly (giving him ample time to be off somewhere else during the rest of the story).

But it has no mentioned stardate, and Riker has a throwaway line early on about 'Dominion negotiations'. In mid-S6, there was a period where the Federation was negotiating with the Dominion. It forms a key part of the plot for 'Statistical Probabilities'. Beyond this brief period, Riker's line doesn't make any sense. It's often thought to have occured here for that reason.
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Old December 17 2007, 07:46 PM   #5
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"...

Compare the airdates to the theatrical release dates, and there you go. Alas, I don't have those handy right now.

I'm sure that "Rapture" is the first post-First Contact episode of DS9.

After Generations, Bashir calls attention to the new uniforms, asking his patient (Sisko?) if his uniform looks brighter.

I want to say that Insurrection took place just before "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges." You can see the new dress uniforms in that episode.
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Old December 17 2007, 07:50 PM   #6
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"...

Merry said:
After Generations [sic], Bashir calls attention to the new uniforms, asking his patient (Sisko?) if his uniform looks brighter.
His patient is Sisko, and his question in context refers to a belief that Sisko might have eyesight problems... but yes, it's also a nudge at the uniforms which premiered in this episode.

Of course, it could hypothetically have taken place before FC (but after the uniforms were introduced). FC certainly takes place somewhere between "Rapture" and "By Inferno's Light" (very religious titles, no?) where Sisko mentions 'the recent Borg attack', the only overt reference to the events of First Contact on DS9.
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Old December 17 2007, 07:57 PM   #7
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"...

It's pretty clear from the DS9 Companion interviews that the producers' intent was for the 24th-century entries to take place in a relative real time. That's why I go with the air dates.

By the way, why does Generations have a [sic] after it in the quote? I spelled it right, and italics are appropriate for movie titles.
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Old December 17 2007, 08:22 PM   #8
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"...

Merry said:
By the way, why does Generations have a [sic] after it in the quote? I spelled it right, and italics are appropriate for movie titles.
Yes, and yes. But the new uniforms that appeared in "Rapture" premiered in... First Contact.
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Old December 18 2007, 12:43 AM   #9
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

I have been watching TNG and DS9 in chronological order for the past few months. I used a mixture of airdate, stardate, and logic in deciding where the overlaps occur.

I put "Generations" in late season 3, two months or so prior to "Way of the Warrior". In that episode, Worf and others talk about the loss of the Enterprise as if it were still a recent occurrence, not something that happened a year ago. I placed it between "The Die Is Cast" and "Explorers" to give Sisko time to grow his goatee.

I placed "First Contact" right before "In Purgatory's Shadow". As mentioned above, Sisko speaks of "...the recent Borg attack" in that episode. Also, the Defiant is not present for the first half of the two-parter. I rationalize that as being repair time for the Borg damage.

"Insurrection" came right after "Chrysalis". Worf does not appear in this episode at all. The "Dominion negotiations" line seems out of place, but the TNG writers were not going to be any more specific than that in regards to DS9 continuity. I've heard a reference to Jadzia was cut, as she was already dead when the movie aired. If the movie took place during season 6 I do not see why it wouldn't be there. (In-universe, I mean. Not in reality.)

That's what I came up with, and it worked well for me. It was a bit sad to watch "Insurrection" and then "Treachery, Faith, and the Great River" so close together. The writing and plotting on DS9 was light-years ahead of what they were doing in the TNG movies.
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Old December 18 2007, 12:55 AM   #10
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

Memory Alpha (I believe these are based on the Stardates):

GENERATIONS

DS9: "Visionary"
VOY: "Emanations"
Star Trek Generations
VOY: "Prime Factors"
DS9: "Distant Voices"


First Contact
DS9: "The Begotten"
VOY: "Coda"
Star Trek: First Contact
DS9: "For the Uniform"
VOY: "Blood Fever"


Insurrection
VOY: "Infinite Regress"
DS9: "It's Only a Paper Moon"
Star Trek: Insurrection
VOY: "Nothing Human"
DS9: "Prodigal Daughter"


I think that It's Only a Paper Moon and Prodigal Daughter are fitting for Insurrection to take place. IOAPM takes place over the course of a month and Worf is seen at the very beginning. PD takes place after IOAPM and Worf is not seen until the very last scenes.
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Old December 18 2007, 04:54 AM   #11
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

TwinklingStar said:
"Insurrection" came right after "Chrysalis". Worf does not appear in this episode at all. The "Dominion negotiations" line seems out of place, but the TNG writers were not going to be any more specific than that in regards to DS9 continuity. I've heard a reference to Jadzia was cut, as she was already dead when the movie aired. If the movie took place during season 6 I do not see why it wouldn't be there. (In-universe, I mean. Not in reality.)
It's worth noting a couple folks put Insurrection at the end of Deep Space Nine, with the ``Dominion negotiations'' being the negotiations that actually result in the armistice, Worf relatively free after the last big battles to be sent on meaningless missions babbling the babble, and issues like the Sona making Ketracel White as a narcotic would be minor political issues rather than direct threats to the Federation's existence and sending a Sovereign-class starship for silly little chores like archeology expeditions and clowning around in the Briar Patch isn't a near-criminal waste of resources.
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Old December 18 2007, 06:28 AM   #12
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"...

Kegek Kringle said:
Merry said:
By the way, why does Generations have a [sic] after it in the quote? I spelled it right, and italics are appropriate for movie titles.
Yes, and yes. But the new uniforms that appeared in "Rapture" premiered in... First Contact.
There were two uniform changes. The first flip-flopped the color and black sections of the standard TNG uniforms and coincided with Generations. The second was to the cool gray jacket over the top as seen in First Contact.
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Old December 18 2007, 08:33 AM   #13
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"...

^DS9 only changed uniforms once-- after First Contact. Generations has the Enterprise's crew transitioning into the uniforms created for DS9.
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Old December 18 2007, 11:11 AM   #14
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"...

Merry said:
There were two uniform changes. The first flip-flopped the color and black sections of the standard TNG uniforms and coincided with Generations. The second was to the cool gray jacket over the top as seen in First Contact.
Okay, there appear to be a few misconceptions in this post. Let's review.

First, there was no uniform change in Generations. There was a planned and scrapped uniform alteration, so all we got by way of changes was a new combadge. The uniforms used in the film were ultimately a confusing mix of TNG's, and DS9's.

Yes, those colour-flipped uniforms you mention premiered on DS9, in "Emissary", before the end of TNG and before Generations. Some of DS9's characters did wear the TNG uniform during the pilot but they wore the DS9 variant consistently from the second episode onwards. Now, the TNG crew continued nonetheless to wear TNG uniforms up until Generations, and non-DS9 Starfleet personnel were usually shown wearing the TNG uniform on DS9 right up until prior to FC; also the DS9 uniform was used on VOY.

It was in FC we got a uniform change in the films. After FC - from "Rapture", to be exact - the FC uniform became standard on DS9.

To requote your earlier phrase:

After Generations, Bashir calls attention to the new uniforms, asking his patient (Sisko?) if his uniform looks brighter.
This occurs in "Rapture", and it is a gag about the First Contact uniforms.
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Old December 18 2007, 01:34 PM   #15
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Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

TwinklingStar said:
I placed "First Contact" right before "In Purgatory's Shadow". As mentioned above, Sisko speaks of "...the recent Borg attack" in that episode. Also, the Defiant is not present for the first half of the two-parter. I rationalize that as being repair time for the Borg damage.
Strictly speaking, the Defiant is not present for the first half of the first half of the two-parter - after Worf's runabout goes missing, Sisko sends Kira into the Gamma Quadrant on the Defiant to do some reconnaissance. This all happens in the first part of the two parter
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