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Old August 29 2012, 11:24 PM   #76
RJDiogenes
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Re: "Space Command"

That's a pity. I wonder what the nature of the differences were. The concept seemed to be pretty clear from the beginning.

I hope this project doesn't self destruct. It could be quantum leap forward for the world of independent creators, or a major setback.
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Old August 30 2012, 12:10 AM   #77
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Re: "Space Command"

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
That's a pity. I wonder what the nature of the differences were. The concept seemed to be pretty clear from the beginning.

I hope this project doesn't self destruct. It could be quantum leap forward for the world of independent creators, or a major setback.
From everything I've seen I think its obvious that this isn't going to be the 50s style space show it was pitched as. I suspect that's part of it.

This again makes me wonder about what sort of guarantees investors have in crowd-sourced projects. I mean, if they contributed on the basis of certain personnel being involved in a project, and said key personnel leave/are left, could those investors demand their investment back?
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Old August 30 2012, 12:33 AM   #78
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Re: "Space Command"

Harvey wrote: View Post
Considering all the money they raised, it is troubling to hear about the production running into behind-the-scenes problems.
Isn't that usually when problems start?
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Old August 30 2012, 05:40 AM   #79
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Re: "Space Command"

Maurice wrote: View Post
This again makes me wonder about what sort of guarantees investors have in crowd-sourced projects. I mean, if they contributed on the basis of certain personnel being involved in a project, and said key personnel leave/are left, could those investors demand their investment back?
Well, this is probably a look at how studios end up feeling as they watch their investment evolve.

But with Kickstarter, I really viewed that as more of a donation; after all, what can you really do to force the Red Cross to use your money exactly like you wanted them to. The only promise made by the Kickstarter offer were the "awards"; so that would be the area where one could make a fraud claim. It may turn out to be something unexpected; but if they send you that bluray your donation paid for, then they really fulfilled the only arguable contract you had with them.

That said, I've known Zicree for a number of years, and I'm familiar with the things he has done behind the scenes on shows. Zicree is an incredibly talented producer; he knows how to get things done right and under budget. The greatest asset he has in accomplishing that is his attitude. Zicree gives everyone the same level of respect - it doesn't matter if they're a studio head or food services; he's going to seek out and use the best ideas and advice he can find.

I've got great faith in Zicree on this; and if Doug is unhappy that it's not going just his specific way, then it's probably better he does step out.
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Old August 30 2012, 06:37 AM   #80
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Re: "Space Command"

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
Considering all the money they raised, it is troubling to hear about the production running into behind-the-scenes problems. I hope they can deal with them and finish the project.
I think some might be pissed because they gave their money because Drexler was involved.
I initially donated solely based on Doug Drexler's participation, so I'm a bit disappointed that he's not going to be as involved as expected, although until we know more about the nature of the differences from the original vision, I'm not going to get too worried about it yet.

There were elements about the original concept I wasn't crazy about anyway, so I don't mind it deviating from that, all I ever wanted and expected from this is a solid indie space-based scifi movie, so if we get that, I'm happy.
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Old August 30 2012, 09:29 AM   #81
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Re: "Space Command"

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
This again makes me wonder about what sort of guarantees investors have in crowd-sourced projects. I mean, if they contributed on the basis of certain personnel being involved in a project, and said key personnel leave/are left, could those investors demand their investment back?
Well, this is probably a look at how studios end up feeling as they watch their investment evolve.

But with Kickstarter, I really viewed that as more of a donation; after all, what can you really do to force the Red Cross to use your money exactly like you wanted them to. The only promise made by the Kickstarter offer were the "awards"; so that would be the area where one could make a fraud claim. It may turn out to be something unexpected; but if they send you that bluray your donation paid for, then they really fulfilled the only arguable contract you had with them.
Oh, I agree that this is probably the case. I mean, how can you stop someone from quitting?

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
I've got great faith in Zicree on this; and if Doug is unhappy that it's not going just his specific way, then it's probably better he does step out.
I'm not going to comment on that. That's Doug's business.

BlobVanDam wrote: View Post
There were elements about the original concept I wasn't crazy about anyway, so I don't mind it deviating from that, all I ever wanted and expected from this is a solid indie space-based scifi movie, so if we get that, I'm happy.
I'm curious as to what you weren't crazy about. Personally, I found the promo videos long on talking up the cast and crew and short on any meaningful details, so there wasn't much to critique except the zooming spaceships and CGI rendered environs.
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Old August 30 2012, 09:46 AM   #82
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Re: "Space Command"

Maurice wrote: View Post
BlobVanDam wrote: View Post
There were elements about the original concept I wasn't crazy about anyway, so I don't mind it deviating from that, all I ever wanted and expected from this is a solid indie space-based scifi movie, so if we get that, I'm happy.
I'm curious as to what you weren't crazy about. Personally, I found the promo videos long on talking up the cast and crew and short on any meaningful details, so there wasn't much to critique except the zooming spaceships and CGI rendered environs.
I wasn't entirely sold on the retro 1950s inspired universe, but as you said, the promo wasn't solid on details, and the video still convinced me to donate, so I was giving them the benefit of the doubt there. Not really a big deal.
And it's not that I had a problem with it so much as that it wasn't one of the selling points for me personally, so if that's part of what has changed, then that wouldn't concern me.

It would be nice for the backers to get more details on this though. The updates have mostly stopped since the Kickstarter campaign finished, at least as far as the creative direction is concerned.
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Old August 30 2012, 09:47 AM   #83
RJDiogenes
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Re: "Space Command"

Maurice wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
That's a pity. I wonder what the nature of the differences were. The concept seemed to be pretty clear from the beginning.

I hope this project doesn't self destruct. It could be quantum leap forward for the world of independent creators, or a major setback.
From everything I've seen I think its obvious that this isn't going to be the 50s style space show it was pitched as. I suspect that's part of it.

This again makes me wonder about what sort of guarantees investors have in crowd-sourced projects. I mean, if they contributed on the basis of certain personnel being involved in a project, and said key personnel leave/are left, could those investors demand their investment back?
Yeah, that never occurred to me. I didn't invest based on any one person, although I'm definitely a fan of Zicree, Drexler and the others, but I did invest based on it being a 50s-style (or at least 50s-inspired) Space Opera. Well, as long as it's good, I won't be too disappointed. They're still talking about it being an optimistic visions, versus the faux cynical stuff that's been the style of the past few years.
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Old August 30 2012, 05:21 PM   #84
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Re: "Space Command"

Yeah, not as interested without Doug involved. I know Marc also but still.. Personaly I'm not a fan of the 50's retro style stuff either, but thats just me.
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Old August 30 2012, 10:21 PM   #85
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Re: "Space Command"

Actually, the retro-50s thing is the one thing I liked the best about the original pitch. I loved the idea of using the 50s aerospace concepts as a jumping off point, as it could have been a fresh look, but the trailers and concept art released are a mish-mash of designs and styles that don't go together and show no cohesive art direction.

Mind you, I don't want it to really look like a 1950s show. I mean, here's the original Space Command from 1953 [link to image].
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Old September 29 2012, 07:56 PM   #86
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Re: "Space Command"

Been kind of expecting something like this for a couple of weeks:

Link

I hate when I make mistakes and I think I've made a big one in putting you all onto the Space Command Project. Although it appears to be a going project, it is not what it was sold as. I think the problem is that it raised almost three times what its Kickstarter goal was and the money went to Marc Zicree's head. He's been changing what Space Command is and some of the best people have already left the project because of it.

Several people have told me that Zicree purposefully misled them to keep them on long enough to close the deal. As I understand it Doug Drexler came up with the original idea, but when Zicree's script was written, it pretty much ignored everything they had planned together. The main reason I got so excited about this project in the first place was becasue Doug, a talented and experienced VFX Supervisor, was on board. Doug has since left the crew over disagreements with Zicree surrounding the changes in direction and a fair amount of dishonesty...
Some of this is probably overstated. There are several responses to the piece at the link as well, including one from Doug Drexler.
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Old September 29 2012, 08:20 PM   #87
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Re: "Space Command"

I think this does bring up one of the biggest problems with Kickstarter. You never really know what exactly you're donating money to until it's too late. I find it kinda sad this the guy in charge's ego appears to be chasing all of the big name people away, they were the main reason I was interested in this.
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Old September 30 2012, 09:33 AM   #88
RJDiogenes
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Re: "Space Command"

Caveat Emptor.

I haven't been keeping up with things on a day-by-day basis, just reading the emails and checking in at the forums occasionally, but I haven't seen anything to make me regret investing. If it becomes something I don't like, well, that's my tough luck-- I didn't sign any contracts, I just gave them a handout.

I've heard a few people talk about a "change in vision," but they haven't really specifically said what that means. Marc is writing several scripts instead of one? Okay, I always knew it was intended to be a franchise. The format is evolving or undefined? So what? We live in an age where the format doesn't have to conform to old standards.

Somebody complained about it being a series of low-budget movies. Well, of course. The campaign raised a huge amount of money in relation to their original goal, but it's still only a fraction of the budget of a TV show, let alone a movie. I knew that and I'm fine with it. This is an independent production, not Hollywood. I've been saying since forever that we have the capability of making fine SF or Sci Fi or Space Opera with home-grade equipment (Chris Mihm has been proving that for years and Dennis is working on proving it with Polaris). I neither expected nor want this to be George Lucas or JJ Abrams.

At this point, I will remain optimistic until I hear something that I dislike from a creative standpoint.
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Old September 30 2012, 09:52 AM   #89
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Re: "Space Command"

I don't see much of a reason to be worried, either. While it's unfortunate that Doug Drexler is out, there are still quite a few talented people involved. I like most of what I've seen so far, even some of the recent changes like the less 50s-ish logo.

Just yesterday, I looked at all the audition tapes for the lead role and was surprised to find that almost all of them seemed quite professional and that there were actually several that I liked. I would be more than fine if Zicree managed to match the quality of his "Star Trek Phase 2" episode "World Enough and Time", and that had some pretty awful acting. "Space Command" already promises better acting and production values than that.
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Old September 30 2012, 04:39 PM   #90
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Re: "Space Command"

I was never really tempted to contribute to this - despite Doug's, Steve's and Andy's really impressive visual contributions to it, the project was sold on Kickstarter as all sizzle and no steak. You had a short list of talented creative people - now all departed - a setting, and a visual style.

Period.

I'm not sure how someone could complain about a change in premise, because nothing so complete as a story or series premise has ever been presented publicly. Setting does not equal premise, and even at this late point the available descriptions of the characters are names, putative ranks and a few broadly-sketched stereotypes.

It will find an an enthusiastic following of some shape and size. Everything does.
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