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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old July 26 2014, 09:08 AM   #91
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

Harvey wrote: View Post
To be fair, from the script dated November 20, 1964:

ANGLE AT THE CORRIDOR INTERSECTION

as the green, animal Vina steps into his path. Seeming taller than Winter, perhaps even stronger. She stands illuminating both of them with the metal base torch she carries, then moves towards him.

FADE OUT.
Oh. Well, then . . .

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Old July 26 2014, 04:51 PM   #92
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

To be honest, until I checked the script last night, I had never even noticed. I don't think Robert Butler's direction makes it very clear, except in the shot pictured above, which is only on the screen for a few seconds.
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Old July 27 2014, 05:52 AM   #93
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

Harvey wrote: View Post
To be honest, until I checked the script last night, I had never even noticed. I don't think Robert Butler's direction makes it very clear, except in the shot pictured above, which is only on the screen for a few seconds.
I didn't know this either. It's a great find, actually. Thanks to FormerLurker and all involved for pointing it out.

I also agree that the intent here is unclear in the finished product. I always realized Vina-as-the-Orion was looking down on Pike, but the problem for me was always that he'd just been hunching over a second or two before, about to go through the low hanging door into the next chamber. The whole thing was always a head-scratcher to me: were his knees bent from also squatting to go through the door? A different angle showing more would of course have cleared the whole thing up, though I suppose could easily have cost more.
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Old July 27 2014, 07:43 AM   #94
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Christopher Pike questions his command, and this isn't given closure at the end of the episode.
I thought that was pretty well resolved with Pike's dialogue in the picnic sequence.
PIKE: It's funny. It's about twenty-four hours ago I was telling the ship's doctor how much I wanted something else not very different from what we have here. An escape from reality. Life with no frustrations. No responsibilities. Now that I have it, I understand the doctor's answer . . . You either live life, bruises, skinned knees and all, or you turn your back on it and start dying. The doctor's going to be happy about one part, at least. He said I needed a rest.
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Vina, who has experienced "discipline" by the Talosians, has a constant sympathy for them. She has been abused, yet becomes apologetic with her abusers.
Stockholm Syndrome?


Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Why didnt the Talosians, with their power across long distances, sense that Pike wouldnt be adequate for control?
For that matter, why did they wait so long to scan the Enterprise's library computer banks (from which they gleaned that humans have "a unique hatred of captivity, even when it's pleasant and benevolent")? Because then there would have been no story.

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
And, aside from the fact that he is the lead charcter, for what specific reason did the Talosians pick him?
VINA: But that's not enough. Don't you see? They read my thoughts, my feelings, my dreams of what would be a perfect man. That's why they picked you.
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Old July 27 2014, 08:33 PM   #95
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Re: Court Martial Review

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
*Kirk is allowed to walk freely after Finney is found out... Commodore could have easily said Take Mr. Spock with you or Take a security guard ...
What guards? The ship had been evacuated except for the people on the bridge and the one tech in the transporter room.
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Old July 27 2014, 11:17 PM   #96
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Re: Court Martial Review

Scotpens -

Good catch with those!

However, even though some of the dialogue does answer some questions, there are others left open. If we were to look at the episode solely on its own, putting ourselves back during the time when the Trek universe was still being built, we still have to ask: Is the Enterprise the only ship 'out there' exploring? Has there been other ships, from Earth or alien planets, previously called to Talos IV with potential companions for Vina? If so, are they in cages as well, or were they destroyed? (It was hinted by Number One that Vina was older than she looks, so I'm assuming that the Talosians were scouting the universe before Enterprise. If not, what were they - the Talosians - doing all that time)?

Lastly, as I asked in my review: How would Vina getting her companion help the Talosians survive?

(Note: I'm working on a story right now which a friend of mine in Singapore is peer reading, and I'm asking the same questions as I work on my rewrite: Why would a character do that if they're going to be doing this? Or, if they said that previously, shouldn't they be doing this?)

Maurice wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
*Kirk is allowed to walk freely after Finney is found out... Commodore could have easily said Take Mr. Spock with you or Take a security guard ...
What guards? The ship had been evacuated except for the people on the bridge and the one tech in the transporter room.
Exactly! Which brings me back to my question of why Kirk was allowed a such freedom if he was under 'Court Martial.'
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Old July 27 2014, 11:39 PM   #97
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

Because it was an emergency, they'd basically proven Kirk's innocence, and no one wanted to burn up in the atmosphere.
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Old July 27 2014, 11:57 PM   #98
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

Maurice wrote: View Post
Because it was an emergency, they'd basically proven Kirk's innocence, and no one wanted to burn up in the atmosphere.
Well, maybe....maybe. I can probably agree with the burning up in the atmosphere bit, but again he was a man accused of dereliction of duty and murder, and the gavel wasn't struck yet.
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Old July 28 2014, 01:02 AM   #99
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

I always took it that the Talosians meant to survive by attribution, that is, by using Pike and Vina as 'Adam and Eve' to repopulate the planet, with the Talosians teaching them and their descendants how to be what the Talosians had been before their world-devastating war. Pike wasn't willing to accept that level of control over his life and destiny, and the investigation of Federation records by the Talosians convinced them that no human would, given the circumstances.
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Old July 28 2014, 02:11 AM   #100
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

FormerLurker wrote: View Post
I always took it that the Talosians meant to survive by attribution, that is, by using Pike and Vina as 'Adam and Eve' to repopulate the planet, with the Talosians teaching them and their descendants how to be what the Talosians had been before their world-devastating war. Pike wasn't willing to accept that level of control over his life and destiny, and the investigation of Federation records by the Talosians convinced them that no human would, given the circumstances.
Intriguing idea...
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Old July 28 2014, 04:04 PM   #101
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

scotpens wrote: View Post

For that matter, why did they wait so long to scan the Enterprise's library computer banks (from which they gleaned that humans have "a unique hatred of captivity, even when it's pleasant and benevolent")? Because then there would have been no story.
Plus,

TALOSIAN: Their method of storing records is crude and consumed much time. Are you prepared to assimilate it?
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Old July 29 2014, 12:38 PM   #102
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

Shore Leave

Story:
Shore leave is needed for crew, so McCoy and Sulu (and other teams) scout an M-Class (i.e. Earth-like) planet for such. However, things are put on hold when McCoy literally sees Alice - from Alice and Wonderland - chasing a white rabbit.

Ideology:
Women are fragile and need protecting and saving, and age aint nothin but a number when it comes to romance - older male and younger female.

All the women are behind a man - literally and metaphorically - in some aspects. Women in this episode are either hanging on the arm of a man and/or walking around unarmed. Yes, the women are all attractive and available or jealous when they dont get attention. For example, Tonia Barrows gets jealous when she sees McCoy walking with two women who are part of the planets creations.

Interestingly, when a female has a fantasy of a man, its flawed. When Barrows dreams of Don Juan, he takes advantage of her rather than sweeps her off her feet. She then needs to be saved by McCoy, whom she immediately falls for and plays make-believe with - she a princess and he her knight in shining armor, which actually causes the planet to create an actual knight to hassle the couple. Tonia Barrows is possibly in her mid-to-late 20s and McCoy is in his forties. Now, nothing wrong with that age difference, speaking from experience, but we do see more of the older male/younger or much younger female than the reverse.

Plot Holes/Plot Issues:
This was a straightforward episode.

Miscellaneous Thoughts:
Scotty is gone again! Indeed, while Scotty is absent - probably vacationing on Risa, or some pleasure planet - we have a guest crewmember named Esteban Rodriguez, who looks like a Latin version of the Enterprise Engineer.

Ruth, a fantasy creation of Kirks based on a girl he knew from the past, is similar to women weve seen before or will see in the series. Shes blonde and possibly in her late teens/early twenties like Lenore in The Conscience of the King and like Rayna in the later Requiem for Methuselah. Like Lenore, Ruth gets and keeps Kirk's attention almost too well. At various points in the episode, Kirk doesn't pay attention to verbal reports from McCoy or Esteban. And, towards the end of the episode, Kirk states he may stay a day or two with the Ruth hes envisioned.

Angela Martine seems to have found another beau. Yet, youd think shed be in mourning since Robert Tomlinsons only been gone for a few episodes! However, why she added the name 'Teller' is questionable since the man she is currently seeing - not married to - has the surname Esteban.

The Kirk/Spock dynamic is interesting in this episode. One instance has Spock grinning slightly after giving Kirk orders for the captain to take shore leave. Another prior instance takes place on the bridge, where Kirk thinks it is Spock - not Yeoman Barrows - who is helping him with a kink in his back. (Pretty bold for that era adding some homoeroticness or bisexuality that supports the Kirk/Spock slash, but the episode kinda brushes that under the rug with Kirk being mesmerized by the visual memory of Ruth. Of course, the homoeroticness could have been unconsciously added or unintended).

Sulu and samurai is interesting. America has a standard to brush over race or the discussion of race when it comes to Asians, and I wondered if it was Uhura we saw who came face-to-face with an African warrior, would there be people crying racism similar to the way you had some - mainly white Trek fans - cry racism over the TNG episode Code of Honor primarily because the guest cast was primarily black? Despite the question of why Sulu was thinking of a samurai at the time - which could be due to anything since thoughts usually turn up without any reason - he doesnt come off as a stereotype; hes into firearms - a stereotypically male hobby - and hes just as capable as the other males. Not too mention, he gets one of the female - white female - creations to hang on his arm towards the end of the episode. (Note: This is something you wouldnt have seen, especially during that era, if it was a black male character instead of Sulu).

This was written by Theodore Sturgeon who would go on to write Amok Time. While it was a good idea of a planet that uses memories or thoughts as a source of amusement for the planet-goers, the execution of the tale, as aforementioned, seems to favor the males.

Now, about McCoy and that white rabbit we see in the beginning: Due to budgetary reasons, we can give the out-universe explanation that it was obviously a man in a suit. However, in-universe we can probably say that was what McCoy was thinking of: a man in a rabbit suit being followed by a young girl, or what looks like a man in a rabbit suit being chased by a young girl in a scene from Alice in Wonderland.

Lastly, Finnegan is portrayed as over-the-top annoyance and energy. So, we can feel why Kirk wants to beat him up. Of course, this is based on Kirk's memory, so this annoyance is probably exaggerated. Interestingly, Spock is shown watching the Kirk/Finnegan fight even though at one point Kirk was knocked unconscious. Also, Kirks tunic tears during the set of bouts, yet Finnegan's does not. (Ive noticed in TOS episodes that even when a fist-fight fight shouldnt really lead to any shirts actually tearing, somehow Kirks tunic always tears while his opponents tunic or top remains intact - this has happened in Where No Man Has Gone Before and, if I remember correctly, Court Martial).

I digress, though.

Score
Score: 3.6 out of 5

Next Up:
The Squire of Gothos
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Old July 29 2014, 05:06 PM   #103
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Ruth, a fantasy creation of Kirk’s based on a girl he knew from the past, is similar to women we’ve seen before or will see in the series. She’s blonde and possibly in her late teens/early twenties like Lenore in ‘The Conscience of the King’ and like Rayna in the later ‘Requiem for Methuselah.’
Take a good look at Ruth--that is not the face of someone in her "late teens / early twenties." More like mid-to late twenties.

Like Lenore, Ruth gets and keeps Kirk's attention almost too well.
Ruth was an emotional distraction from Kirk's past. With Lenore, he was acting as a means to an end.

Another prior instance takes place on the bridge, where Kirk thinks it is Spock - not Yeoman Barrows - who is helping him with a kink in his back. (Pretty bold for that era adding some homoeroticness or bisexuality that supports the Kirk/Spock slash, but the episode kinda brushes that under the rug with Kirk being mesmerized by the visual memory of Ruth. Of course, the homoeroticness could have been unconsciously added or unintended).
Helping a friend with a physical issue has no inherent or suggested homoeroticism. Men who spot each other in gyms often help a friend stretch a muscle, etc., as an act of plain support, not some imagined trace of bisexuality, etc. The Shore Leave scene is no different.

Not too mention, he gets one of the female - white female - creations to hang on his arm towards the end of the episode. (Note: This is something you wouldn’t have seen, especially during that era, if it was a black male character instead of Sulu).
Your point is well taken, as it is a reminder that asians were seen as "safe minorities," even in the post-WW2, post Korean war American filmed media (including the "Red Chinese" stereotypes spread around during the height of the Cold War). On the opposite end, you would not see an African American male in the same position as many in 1960s America--despite the message of the Civil Rights movement (never universally loved / trusted in that decade) found the idea of romance or basic sexual presence of a black male to be offensive, while others thought of African Americans as sub-human. A black male in Sulu's position would have been cutting room floor material at best--more than likely, it would not have found its way before cameras at all.
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Old July 29 2014, 06:26 PM   #104
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
. . . Sulu and samurai is interesting. America has a standard to brush over race or the discussion of race when it comes to Asians, and I wondered if it was Uhura we saw who came face-to-face with an African warrior, would there be people crying racism similar to the way you had some - mainly white Trek fans - cry racism over the TNG episode ‘Code of Honor’ primarily because the guest cast was primarily black?
In "The Man Trap," it seemed perfectly right and appropriate for the salt vampire to appear to Uhura in the guise of a handsome black man who spoke her native Swahili. As for the aforementioned controversial TNG episode, I haven't seen it.


Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Lastly, Finnegan is portrayed as over-the-top annoyance and energy. So, we can feel why Kirk wants to beat him up. Of course, this is based on Kirk's memory, so this annoyance is probably exaggerated.
I wonder if that also explains Finnegan's phony stage-Irish accent?


TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Ruth, a fantasy creation of Kirk’s based on a girl he knew from the past, is similar to women we’ve seen before or will see in the series. She’s blonde and possibly in her late teens/early twenties like Lenore in ‘The Conscience of the King’ and like Rayna in the later ‘Requiem for Methuselah.’
Take a good look at Ruth--that is not the face of someone in her "late teens / early twenties." More like mid-to late twenties.
To me, she looks about thirty. Shirley Bonne, the actress who played Ruth, was 32 at the time and looked her age.

According to TMOST, Kirk was involved with Ruth while he was still a midshipman at the Academy. I'm sure there's fanfic about young cadet Kirk's romance with this "older woman."
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Old July 29 2014, 07:39 PM   #105
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Re: Joel Revisits TOS....

Re: Bruce Mars. Along with "Shore Leave" being filmed the week of his 31st birthday, he had auditioned for Bailey in "The Corbomite Maneuver". Finnegan might have been his consolation prize for them liking his work. He also briefly shows up in "Assignment: Earth".
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