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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old February 19 2013, 02:15 PM   #271
C.E. Evans
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

BillJ wrote: View Post
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BillJ wrote: View Post
I never understood why Starfleet would have other Excelsior class ships under construction when they still hadn't proven that the prototype was workable?
There likely was nothing wrong with the Excelsior as far as its basic spaceframe and systems was concerned. The switch of the ship's registry to NCC-2000 likely signalled the point the design went into mass production and it may have happened five or more years before Star Trek VI (enough time for Starfleet to develop a variant design), IMO.
I would think that the innards would have to be redesigned to integrate a standard warp reactor vs. the transwarp drive variation.
Not necessarily. Even if other Excelsior-class ships weren't equipped with transwarp drive, there could have been enough room in the design for a conventional warp drive, with the extra space repurposed for other onboard systems and facilities.
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Old February 19 2013, 02:23 PM   #272
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

I'm going to stick with my own rationalization for two reasons:

1) We simply don't know if the Excelsior was even operational between 2285-90. She could have easily been sitting in Spacedock having her innards reworked for conventional use.

2) We have no proof of there being any more than two ships of the class (Excelsior and Enterprise) being in operation as of 2293.
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Old February 19 2013, 02:32 PM   #273
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Timo wrote: View Post
The idea that something about the Excelsior or the transwarp drive failed to pan out is completely external to aired Star Trek. On the other hand, nothing is said or shown to establish that ships of the Excelsior design would have required transwarp to be feasible. Perhaps NX-2000 was just a random ship of that class diverted from the main production run for this rare propulsion experiment, while others were being completed with conventional engines for conventional purposes.

Timo Saloniemi
Both TNG and Voyager discuss the Borg having Transwarp drive in almost magical terms. I'd think it highly unlikely they'd so this if StarFleet had developed a working Transwarp system within living memory.

BillJ wrote: View Post
I would think that the innards would have to be redesigned to integrate a standard warp reactor vs. the transwarp drive variation.
That said whenever Voyager's on verge on getting transwarp drive it only ever seems to be half an hour's work to bolt it onto their existing systems - it can't be *that* incompatible.

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Old February 19 2013, 02:37 PM   #274
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

danellis wrote: View Post

That said whenever Voyager's on verge on getting transwarp drive it only ever seems to be half an hour's work to bolt it onto their existing systems - it can't be *that* incompatible.
You have another near century of development of warp theory and technological progress and well, it's Voyager.
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Old February 19 2013, 03:45 PM   #275
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Why would they quit building their workhorse class (Constitution), when their envisioned work horse hasn't even been through trial runs yet?
There's nothing to indicate that the Excelsior would have been intended as the new workhorse. Quite to the contrary...

The Excelsior class being dropped from the exalted initial position indicated in ST3 to the status of workhorse as seen in TNG may well have taken the entire intervening half a century.

And if the Excelsior had already been flying at incredible speeds, why would hey abandon the project because of a little sabotage?
There's no evidence that the project would have been abandoned. For all we know, both the ship and the drive were splendid successes.

Both TNG and Voyager discuss the Borg having Transwarp drive in almost magical terms. I'd think it highly unlikely they'd so this if StarFleet had developed a working Transwarp system within living memory.
But transwarp probably just means "better than warp". There would exist a transwarp drive at any given timepoint: in Archer's days, it would be the warp seven drive, in Kirk's days it would be the Excelsior drive, and in Picard's days the goal would again be set higher.

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Old February 19 2013, 04:52 PM   #276
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

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I think much like the Sovereign class version, it was built under a different name then changed based on events.

I never understood why Starfleet would have other Excelsior class ships under construction when they still hadn't proven that the prototype was workable?
Look at the differences between the 1701-B and the NX/NCC-2000. There's a good chance that both ships started life as testbeds for different/competing drive systems. Which would make them both being built in or around the same time not to unusual.
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Old February 19 2013, 05:21 PM   #277
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

i know that warp goes the speed of the script, but throwing that aside... the excelsior does get to khitomer pretty quickly from beta quadrant. im not sure of the distances, but that would tell me at the very least that "transwarp" became the new standard and all scotty did was make it stall.
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Old February 20 2013, 12:39 AM   #278
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

from memory beta:

"The Enterprise-A is ordered to be decommissioned by Admiral Androvar Drake and is scheduled to be destroyed in a live fire exercise. However, the government of Chal requests that they be given the Enterprise to use in their system defense forces. When Chal's population takes control of the vessel, they retrofit the ship with disruptors. Retired Captain James T. Kirk is appointed commanding officer of the vessel, which is renamed Enterprise (without a registry or registry prefix) as it makes way for Chal. The Enterprise is then destroyed over planet Chal by Admiral Drake in an act of revenge against Kirk. (TOS novel: The Ashes of Eden)"

Apologies if thats been posted already, not read the whole thread I admit.
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Old February 21 2013, 02:18 AM   #279
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Wasnt the yorktown updted and giveth the new registy nuber nccc 1701-A?.
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Old February 21 2013, 04:54 AM   #280
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Mr Pointy Ears wrote: View Post
Wasnt the yorktown updted and giveth the new registy nuber nccc 1701-A?.
That's one theory, but there are others.
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Old February 21 2013, 05:36 AM   #281
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

"Would you look at that"

The line may be supposed to convey that she's never seen it before, but the contempt which Nichols delivers the line seems to convey a sense of "You kids get off my lawn".
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Old February 21 2013, 10:30 AM   #282
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Mr Pointy Ears wrote: View Post
Wasnt the yorktown updted and giveth the new registy nuber nccc 1701-A?.
That's one theory, but there are others.
This.

One theory is no more right than any other. Just fun to bat the ball around and try to make sense of a few contradictory lines of dialogue.

It'll never be dealt with on screen.
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Old February 22 2013, 12:34 PM   #283
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Let's looks at this from the perspective of another example. Admittedly future example, but maybe Kirk and Enterprise's Nil and A set a precedent.

The most obvious angle is the D and E. Somewhere (both Memory's Alpha and Beta back this up) state that the E was being built to be another ship. Then the D is destroyed and it's renamed the Enterprise and the D's Command Crew is moved across, echoing the Nil-A transition. Clearly Starfleet like keeping Officers together if they've proven themselves.
Very early on in this thread someone pointed out that the Sovereign is a smaller class, isn't also a better war vessel though? The Federation is in the middle/at the beginning of the Dominion War, the Borg threat has been looming, it makes more sense that the flagship suit that more. Getting the civilians off of a ship that is clearly going into battle is probably a good idea.

Back to the 2280s. We know that Starfleet was experimenting with Transwarp and a new class with the Excelsior, a ship that when Sulu was granted his commission he was given command of, after the Transwarp drive was deemed a failure. Seems to me that Starfleet were seriously considering a new type of ship that would outstrip the Constitution class in every way. But they had to keep their fleet up and running until they knew where they are going with this new class. They wouldn't build new Constitutions, they're expecting to build an entire new fleet when the Excelsior proves a success. So they keep the existing ones running through refits. Of course given the timescale, The A is a ship that has already gone through refit and probably about to be launched when Kirk and crew save the Earth from the Whale probe.

Kirk and crew have broken a whole lot of rules to save Spock. If that's all they had done I'd imagine the entire command crew would be up against a court martial. Given the service records it would probably be lenient. But they just saved the Earth so we'll go super easy on them, either PR, thanks or both can be claimed.

Sulu's comment about “Maybe we'll get the Excelsior” shows that rumours are that it's about to go into the field. But they can't give a crew (no matter how decorated) that stole a starship to save one man, the pride of the fleet. So they give them another Constitution with the name Enterprise. Not only will this be a huge PR spin for the public, the crew get what they want. Kirk also wouldn't see a non-Constitution class with the name Enterprise as HIS ship, he'd recognise it more as a gesture.
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Old February 22 2013, 01:05 PM   #284
Timo
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Very early on in this thread someone pointed out that the Sovereign is a smaller class, isn't also a better war vessel though?
Hard to tell. The Galaxy class scored victories in the Dominion War, and (rather curiously) was the only starship to ever actually destroy a Dominion vessel larger than the tiny battlebugs on screen. The Sovereign class was nowhere to be seen.

...after the Transwarp drive was deemed a failure
This is rather difficult to believe, considering that after these movies, Starfleet is suddenly seen using a warp drive that looks very different: big flashes at warp entry, streaking stars when the ships move, a new definition of Warp 10. Surely something new was a great success - and transwarp is a natural candidate.

The success or failure of transwarp shouldn't affect Sulu's getting command of NCC-2000 much either way...

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Old February 22 2013, 01:16 PM   #285
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

NightJim wrote: View Post
Sulu's comment about “Maybe we'll get the Excelsior” shows that rumours are that it's about to go into the field.
It really shows nothing of the kind. Sulu may not be up to speed on its status plus its still sitting in Spacedock at the end of The Voyage Home.
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