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View Poll Results: How do you grade The Avengers?
A+ 149 46.42%
A 102 31.78%
A- 30 9.35%
B+ 17 5.30%
B 11 3.43%
B- 5 1.56%
C+ 0 0%
C 4 1.25%
C- 1 0.31%
D+ 1 0.31%
D 0 0%
D- 0 0%
F 1 0.31%
Voters: 321. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 8 2012, 04:50 AM   #646
WalkerBait
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

IIRC, Norton wanted a producer credit or some creative control in The Avengers which wasn't going to happen. Which is fine, I think Ruffalo did a fantastic job.

Emily Blunt as Black Widow? Don't see it, not at all.
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Old May 8 2012, 04:51 AM   #647
Admiral James Kirk
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Aldo wrote: View Post

Ok, that makes him sound bad, but I know there's more to him not coming back then just salary negotioations.
He was a little bitch and demanded final cut on the movie. Marvel refused him, so he refused to do publicity for the movie. That resulted in this statement from Kevin Feige:

"We have made the decision to not bring Ed Norton back to portray the title role of Bruce Banner in The Avengers. Our decision is definitely not one based on monetary factors, but instead rooted in the need for an actor who embodies the creativity and collaborative spirit of our other talented cast members. The Avengers demands players who thrive working as part of an ensemble, as evidenced by Robert, Chris H, Chris E, Samuel, Scarlett, and all of our talented casts. We are looking to announce a name actor who fulfills these requirements, and is passionate about the iconic role in the coming weeks."
In short, Norton acted like a bitch and got slapped down like one. Kudos to Marvel for not taking his shit.
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Old May 8 2012, 04:55 AM   #648
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Indeed, they wanted more of an ensemble cast, Norton wanted to be more in control. He did okay as Banner in his movie but, again, Ruffalo did a much, much better job and really brought even a measure of heart and humanity to Banner. Banner played well off of Tony, Natasha and everyone else very well. I don't think the scenes between Tony and Banner would have worked nearly as well if it had been Norton.

The scene where Tony is goading Banner with the little shock-stick thingie? I don't see Norton just have the peaceful mannerisms with boiling rage inside of him the same way Ruffalo did.
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Old May 8 2012, 05:06 AM   #649
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

I can't really see a Black Widow solo movie working, but I would love to see an "Agents of SHIELD" flick or series starring her and Hawkeye and/or a rotating cast of various non-"super" heroes.
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Old May 8 2012, 05:21 AM   #650
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Iron Man 2 doesn't really work as a standalone movie. The beginning and ending deal with Tony fighting Hammer and Vanko, but the middle deals with Fury and Romanoff getting involved.

On the other hand, if you watch all five movies in sequence, then see Avengers, it really works as part of the ongoing saga. Having Fury, Black Widow, and Agent Coulson (that's his full name, of course) drop in on Tony makes their interaction in The Avengers feel more fleshed-out.
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Old May 8 2012, 05:26 AM   #651
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Regarding Black Widow. I don't think she could pull off a movie by herself, but I don't know enough about the comics, so I could be wrong.

That being said, I could see Renner and Johannson in a movie together (can't think of a title, though, "Black Widow and Hawkeye" sounds dumb). They were cool characters who worked well in spite of not having the buildup that other characters had.
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Old May 8 2012, 05:29 AM   #652
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

InklingStar wrote: View Post
Iron Man 2 doesn't really work as a standalone movie. The beginning and ending deal with Tony fighting Hammer and Vanko, but the middle deals with Fury and Romanoff getting involved.

On the other hand, if you watch all five movies in sequence, then see Avengers, it really works as part of the ongoing saga. Having Fury, Black Widow, and Agent Coulson (that's his full name, of course) drop in on Tony makes their interaction in The Avengers feel more fleshed-out.
Reading Fury's Big Week really helped me see where everything fits together chronologically. For example, I had no idea that TiH wasn't concurrent with IM 1 but rather IM2 and Thor. It's really cool how it all fits together.
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Old May 8 2012, 05:31 AM   #653
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet. Anyone else notice how for most of the movie he is called "Doctor Banner" or just "Banner"? It was a long time until anyone called him Bruce and only by Black Widow I think. Can't help but think it was another subtle nod to Bill Bixby where his name was David Banner.
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Old May 8 2012, 05:38 AM   #654
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Ruffalo's performance really reminded me of Bill Bixby. He managed to balance humanity and pathos and blend it with humor. He had a dangerous edge, but tempered with gentility. He even has a decent physical resemblance to Bix.
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Old May 8 2012, 05:52 AM   #655
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

He was my favorite part of the movie. I mostly a DC guy but the Hulk has always been my favorite Marvel character. Mostly because of the Bill Bixby show. I like parts of the first two movies but Banner was not a likable character in either. Which made it hard to care about him and the burden he cares. But this time Ruffalo got it right.
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Old May 8 2012, 06:02 AM   #656
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

I was two years old when the Bill Bixby series premiered and it hooked me for life. I did enjoy the two previous films but I can see why people would have problems with them.

Eric Bana's performance alternated between ice cold detachment and tortured pathos. There wasn't much room for humor in that movie. Ang Lee's Hulk was really a tone poem about emotional repression. This had the result of making Bana's Banner distant and hard to relate to.

On the other hand Ed Norton was too relatable. There was no real pathos or inner conflict. The Hulk was treated simply as a problem to be solved. An outside problem. There was no edge to the performance. That meant Norton was simply a bland, generic good guy.

Ruffalo's Banner, on the other hand, was a guy who had been through hell for years and had gotten used to it. This made him a hell of a lot more dangerous than any of the other Banners. Why? Because while all the other Banners had short fuses, Rufallo was the only Banner who was walking around with a lit match, ready to use it.
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Old May 8 2012, 10:15 AM   #657
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

InklingStar wrote: View Post

On the other hand, if you watch all five movies in sequence, then see Avengers, it really works as part of the ongoing saga. Having Fury, Black Widow, and Agent Coulson (that's his full name, of course) drop in on Tony makes their interaction in The Avengers feel more fleshed-out.
I can see a Marvel Universe BR/DVD box set coming out right about the time The Avengers disks hit the stores.
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Old May 8 2012, 10:23 AM   #658
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Cutter John wrote: View Post
InklingStar wrote: View Post

On the other hand, if you watch all five movies in sequence, then see Avengers, it really works as part of the ongoing saga. Having Fury, Black Widow, and Agent Coulson (that's his full name, of course) drop in on Tony makes their interaction in The Avengers feel more fleshed-out.
I can see a Marvel Universe BR/DVD box set coming out right about the time The Avengers disks hit the stores.
That would actually be pretty cool. I watched "Thor" and "Captain America" for the first time just a couple days ago, and it was pretty neat how all the movies referenced each other in order to lead into "The Avengers."
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Old May 8 2012, 11:46 AM   #659
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Cutter John wrote: View Post
InklingStar wrote: View Post

On the other hand, if you watch all five movies in sequence, then see Avengers, it really works as part of the ongoing saga. Having Fury, Black Widow, and Agent Coulson (that's his full name, of course) drop in on Tony makes their interaction in The Avengers feel more fleshed-out.
I can see a Marvel Universe BR/DVD box set coming out right about the time The Avengers disks hit the stores.
I wish. That means a deal between three distributors: Universal (Inc. Hulk), Paramount (Iron Man 1-2, Thor, Captain America) & Disney (Avengers).

Not an easy task I think.
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Old May 8 2012, 11:53 AM   #660
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

I would enjoy a Fury / Widow / Hawkeye SHIELD movie, but on their own they can't sustain a solid movie. Particularly in the aftermath of the seven hero nerdgasm that was the Avengers!
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