How long "SHOULD" it have taken Carters Wonder Woman to win War II?

[Guy Gardener]

Guess what I been up all night doing?

I thought I was watching a cartoon until Wonder Woman said "Concentration Camps" in that episode where earth is being judged by Buck Roger's Boss, which is when I really began to notice how this Amazon was procrastinating and aimless while the Nazis carried on putting the trains on schedule.

Diana has an invisible, probably radar invisible too, plane, bulletproofability, the strength of 20 men and a noose that can compel truth.

"Sigh"

Half way into the pilot Wonder Woman should have made Adolph her bitch, but then what would the TV show be about if WWII resolved itself in 1942 well before Truman dropped those bombs?

[23skidoo]

I think I was able to make sense out of most of that!

Seriously, though, you've touched on the one fatal flaw regarding superheroes. By rights, WWII should have ended immediately - or perhaps never even started - in the DCU (or the Marvel U or the Fawcett U) due to the mere existence of WW, Superman, Captain Marvel, Capt. America, etc. The comics - and the later Carter TV series - just chose not to go there. Mind you Carter's WW wasn't invincible and probably could have been killed by a tank firing at her, or a nuke going off for that matter.

It's a similar argument to what I've heard in more recent times - that the comics had a heck of a time getting around the fact that Superman would have prevented 9/11 or would have found Bin Laden about 20 minutes after the towers came down if nothing else. The comics had to tread lightly, but it's simply a suspension of disbelief thing you need to accept into order to enjoy and accept the stories. Same as convincing yourself faster-than-light travel is possible (without that suspension of disbelief 99% of all SF becomes dead to you). At least when it comes to Doctor Who, there's the handy "fixed point in time" thing so you don't have people complaining about Rory not killing Hitler in that one episode, or the Doctor going back to Sept. 11...

Alex

[Zaku]

In the DCU the Spear Of Destiny prevented American superheroes, particularly those with magic-based origins or powers from intervening in the War.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Spear_of_Destiny
http://www.cosmicteams.com/jsa/spearofdestiny/spear.htm

[the G-man]

It's a similar argument to what I've heard in more recent times - that the comics had a heck of a time getting around the fact that Superman would have prevented 9/11 or would have found Bin Laden about 20 minutes after the towers came down if nothing else.

There is also the fact that, in a comic book world, Osama Bin Laden would be a piker.

If you think about it... Batman has been fighting the DCU version of Al Quaeda for about forty years, in Ras Al Ghul and his League of Assassins.

Ras is a terrorist nobleman of Middle Eastern descent out to "purify" the world with the assistance of his worldwide network of terrorists.

Bin Laden is a terrorist nobleman of Middle Eastern descent out to "purify" the world with the assistance of his worldwide network of terrorists.

Of course, in the DCU, Bin Laden would not get very far with his group before being taken over by Ras's forces and given the choice to join them or die.

Meanwhile, the Marvel U has seen so many skyscrapers knocked over by the Hulk, Galactus etc., and so many innocent people killed by Magneto, the Red Skull, Dr. Doom, Hydra, et al, I suspect that Sept 11 wouldn't be much of an event for them (except in crappy JMS fanwank, that is).

In a world where you have Ras, Kobra (or in Marvel Doom and the Red Skull), etc., and supervillains that level entire cities in a given month, something as bad as 9/11 would look relatively minor league.

[Forbin]

The Fleischer Superman cartoons have an episode where Clark and Lois go to Tokyo as impartial reporters under political protection, to get the Japanese point of view of the war. Every night, Supes sneaks out and destroys another shipyard. That and "Japateurs" was the series only active involvement in the war I can recall.

IIRC, Marvel heroes' response to failing to prevent 9/11 was that they never imagined anything so heinous could be conceived. Even though they'd seen worse things a hundred times.

[Guy Gardener]

In the first issue of Damage Control (in the 80s.) a workplace comedy comic about the (re)construction company that cleans up after Superheroes, Spider-Man while piloting a 400 foot tall droid armour, "accidentally" knocked over one of the World Trade Centre Towers because he had no idea what he was doing.

The Juggernaut knocked it over again a few years later in X-Force.

Suspension of disbelief helps.

I made it into season 2 of Wonder Woman late last night and I was agog about how they handled the 35 year leap forward in time between seasons...

Same Wonder Woman but now hitting on Steve Trevor Junior.

They should rename this Amazonian Princess as "Skeevy Woman".

...

All Star Squadron (from the 80s all about the 40s.) says that Hitler had the spear of destiny which cancelled all Superhuman ability in Europe, meanwhile in the last couple years it's become common knowledge that the original Human Torch from 616 killed Hitler to everyone except Brian Bendis who says that Captain America's sidekick Bucky did it.

[the G-man]

Forbin wrote:

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IIRC, Marvel heroes' response to failing to prevent 9/11 was that they never imagined anything so heinous could be conceived. Even though they'd seen worse things a hundred times.

Yeah, something like that. Which is, in part, why I referred to the story Marvel did as "crappy JMS fanwank."

JMS/Marvel's 9/11 tribute had both Dr.Doom and Magneto crying over the victims.

Doom? Magneto? They have killed, or tired to kill, more people than Bin Laden ever dreamed of.

Magneto's reaction to 9/11 would be "What do you call 3000 dead humans? A good start."

Doom's reaction would be "Bah, so a few paltry thousand of Richards' accursed countrymen died for the weakness of their leaders. What matter is it for Doom? Let that oil fattened madman Bin Laden dare try to threaten as single sovereign subject of Latveria and then he shall know how a TRUE ruler deals with such as he..."

[Guy Gardener]

I think dooms response should have been "Well, sure, anyone could have done that, but what I do, takes style."

My Doom is a little campier than yours G-man.

In the 80s Avengers, during the Buscema run, on a skew Earth, Kang nuked New York. After he was sure every one was dead, he ran out onto the powdered bones of the avengers and danced... So he's singing baout how smart he is when Immortus, his elder self materializes, actually it was probably another kang, so kang form another time line apears, grabs the conqueror by the ear and says "idiot!" and just kicks the shit out of him for being so short sighted...But that's the start of the whole council of cross time Kangs storyline.

[Eduardo]

I think DC put something about (retroactively) about their heros being unable to be in WW2 due to Hitler having the spear of destiny or something like that, which would allow him to take control of them.

[Agent Richard07]

the G-man wrote:

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JMS/Marvel's 9/11 tribute had both Dr.Doom and Magneto crying over the victims.

The Kingpin was there too, I believe.

[Mr. Adventure]

I gotta dig out my WW DVDs.

Zaku wrote:

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In the DCU the Spear Of Destiny prevented American superheroes, particularly those with magic-based origins or powers from intervening in the War.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Spear_of_Destiny
Spear of Destiny

I'm not sure if comic Hitler is more tastelessly awesome or awesomely tasteless.

[the G-man]

Agent Richard07 wrote:

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The Kingpin was there too, I believe.

That he was, but at least the Kingpin is merely a mobster, not a genocidal supervillain

[Mike Farley]

Guy Gardener wrote:

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I think dooms response should have been "Well, sure, anyone could have done that, but what I do, takes style."

DOOM: Any fool can destroy a skyscraper. Try launching one, intact, into orbit.

[Guy Gardener]

Twice.

Although strictly speaking, the second time it was Kristoff with Dooms personality jockying the kid.

The second time would have been hard to launch the building because Reed would have put provisions against such an attack ever again in to the Baxter Building, while also making it far more "spaceworthy" failing his failsafes failing.

[Admiral James Kirk]

Guy Gardener wrote:

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Guess what I been up all night doing?

Considering the subject matter, I'd have to say... Your hand?