RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,849
Posts: 5,328,121
Members: 24,552
Currently online: 730
Newest member: SpammetySpam

TrekToday headlines

Cubify Star Trek 3DMe Mini Figurines
By: T'Bonz on Jul 11

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

New Trek Home Fashions
By: T'Bonz on Jul 4


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Forgotten History.
Outstanding 55 51.40%
Above Average 38 35.51%
Average 9 8.41%
Below Average 3 2.80%
Poor 2 1.87%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 26 2012, 10:59 PM   #121
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I'd never heard of that gentleman before.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27 2012, 02:24 AM   #122
MatthiasRussell
Fleet Captain
 
MatthiasRussell's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

My review:

I’m left with mixed feelings regarding Forgotten History. As a Star Trek fan, I enjoyed how well this book made sense of Original Series and Animated Series episodes just as Watching the Clock made sense of Enterprise’s Temporal Cold War and time travel in general. However, as a trek literature reader, I found the book a little dry and the characters not very engaging.

I wasn’t sure what to expect from this book. I have enjoyed all of Christopher Bennett’s novels, especially how well he handles complex science fiction subjects, but with regards to the Department of Temporal Investigations as a series, I was afraid it would be a one trick pony. Through the entire read of Forgotten History, I was never able to get into the DTI characters like I did with Watching the Clock. The new characters Grey and Delgado were interesting original characters but for some reason, they weren’t as engaging as Garcia and Ranjea were in Watching the Clock. I also had a problem getting hooked with the Original Series characters largely because their story often jumped through spans of months or years.

Even though I wasn’t gripped by the story or characters, Forgotten History was still interesting because of what it took from and added to the Star Trek saga. What significantly impressed me was how well The Animated Series episodes and elements were incorporated into the novel. Often TAS stories are ignored but Bennett did a great job making some of the strange TAS stories fit into a modern novel targeted to adults. For example, the Animated Series life support belts are mentioned as is why what appeared to be a great technology would have been discarded by Starfleet.

Though these details are of interest to a Star Trek fan, they tended to bog down the flow of the story. The book has several pages of what I would consider rambling where a character’s thoughts are described, gaps in the Trek timeline are filled in, or large swaths of time in the novel are covered which sometimes left me thinking, “Get on with it.” Many of these ramblings or musings added depth to the franchise, such as supplying a back story to Saavik and Spock’s relationship, but it often made for a dry read.

Forgotten History not only added to my appreciation of a fictional universe (er, multiverse) but to my perspective on real history. The book has left me questioning my view of historical events and persons, showing me the need to be objective and wonder how much of what I know is colored by those doing the documentation and what is left out of the history books.

Although I didn’t enjoy the reading experience, I did appreciate the depth Forgotten History brings to Star Trek. It is definitely worth reading and I recommended it to all fans of Star Trek: The Original Series. I look forward to future works by Christopher Bennett but I have less enthusiasm for DTI books after reading Forgotten History than I did when I began.
__________________
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"
MatthiasRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27 2012, 02:57 AM   #123
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Thanks for the thoughtful review. I'm sorry it didn't work for you overall, but I'm glad you found some things to appreciate.

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
I also had a problem getting hooked with the Original Series characters largely because their story often jumped through spans of months or years.
That's a fair criticism. It could be I was so eager to use this book to advance my post-TMP continuity plans that it divided the focus too much. Then again, the DTI side of the story necessarily took a while to unfold.


Forgotten History not only added to my appreciation of a fictional universe (er, multiverse) but to my perspective on real history. The book has left me questioning my view of historical events and persons, showing me the need to be objective and wonder how much of what I know is colored by those doing the documentation and what is left out of the history books.
That's the most gratifying thing I've ever read in a negative review of one of my books. If you take nothing else away from the book, I'm proud if you take away that insight.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27 2012, 03:17 AM   #124
MatthiasRussell
Fleet Captain
 
MatthiasRussell's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

That is something I appreciate about you as an author, there is an introspective quality about your books that always force me to reexamine my perspective. That is what sci fi, especially Star Trek, should do.

Though I didn't particularly enjoy the reading expereince, I feel I have grown as a Star Trek fan and as a student of history for the experience which makes me glad I picked up the book.

I honestly can't criticize Forgotten History too much because I honestly can't say there is much that I would improve. Much of my negativity is just that it wasn't my personal taste.
__________________
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"
MatthiasRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27 2012, 03:25 AM   #125
MatthiasRussell
Fleet Captain
 
MatthiasRussell's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Yevetha wrote: View Post
Anybody who wants to give us more spoilers?
There's a reason why you are warned of spoilers in the title of ALL review threads.
__________________
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"
MatthiasRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27 2012, 08:50 AM   #126
Lanny77
Lieutenant
 
Lanny77's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I picked up a copy of this early yesterday morning and read through it in a day. On the whole, it was a very interesting story.



However, the novel lacked the same Omph as Watching the clock, the same energy pushing the story foreword and content to waddle along at it's own pace. This isn't always a bad thig but here, it made it a little difficult to immerse yourself in the story.



I did pick this up just prior to going to see Avengers so I may be a bit spoiled when it comes to fast pasted stories.

Anyway, like a good TOS episode, I rate this as Above Average.
__________________
Look to the stars for hope burns bright

I am Lanny, Hear me muse!
read, fallow, enjoy
Lanny77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27 2012, 02:17 PM   #127
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Lanny77 wrote: View Post
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27 2012, 08:48 PM   #128
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

One of my favorite lines in the whole book: "If the Vulcans don't like you...then I do."
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 27 2012, 11:13 PM   #129
MatthiasRussell
Fleet Captain
 
MatthiasRussell's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Some other random thoughts of mine on the book:


What is the Earth Centroplex? Is that a predecessor to Spacedock?

I thought it was interesting how the Chronal Assessment Committee was formed then later became the Department of Temporal Investigations. It reminded me of the NACA, the committee which later became NASA.

I would love to see the USS Everett encountering Timeship Two in an upcoming SOTL calendar.

If resurrecting characters diminishes the drama and emotion created by his/her death, doesn’t the same thing happen when characters from an alternate universe appear and give someone chances to correct missed opportunities and tragedies. The scene with T’Pring made me think Spock’s tragedy in Amok Time wasn’t so bad since he was given a second chance to become intimate and connect with T’Pring a few years later. I’m left thinking that Amok Time really wasn’t a tragedy for Spock since he later had the opportunity to be with an even better T’Pring and change an entire alternate Vulcan society and quadrant.
__________________
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"
MatthiasRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27 2012, 11:49 PM   #130
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
What is the Earth Centroplex? Is that a predecessor to Spacedock?
It's the lovely space station from the TMP drydock sequence that was then amputated, flipped upside down, and recycled as Regula 1 in TWOK. Memory Alpha calls it the orbital office complex, but it was called Centroplex in the novelization and that's how I've always thought of it. (In fact, I hadn't even realized until now that that wasn't its official name.)


I thought it was interesting how the Chronal Assessment Committee was formed then later became the Department of Temporal Investigations. It reminded me of the NACA, the committee which later became NASA.
I cribbed the CAC from All Our Yesterdays: The Time Travel Sourcebook from Last Unicorn Games.


I would love to see the USS Everett encountering Timeship Two in an upcoming SOTL calendar.
Me too. We've seen a lot of ship designs in canon and fan blueprints that used the saucer without the engineering hull (like the Miranda or Constellation classes or Franz Joseph's scout ships), but the reverse, a ship based on the engineering hull without the saucer, is very rare. The only instance I've ever seen was the fan-created Balclutha class.


If resurrecting characters diminishes the drama and emotion created by his/her death, doesnít the same thing happen when characters from an alternate universe appear and give someone chances to correct missed opportunities and tragedies. The scene with TíPring made me think Spockís tragedy in Amok Time wasnít so bad since he was given a second chance to become intimate and connect with TíPring a few years later. Iím left thinking that Amok Time really wasnít a tragedy for Spock since he later had the opportunity to be with an even better TíPring and change an entire alternate Vulcan society and quadrant.
I'd hardly say "Amok Time" was a tragedy for Spock, or even a missed opportunity. On the contrary, it was more like a dodged bullet. He was much better off not marrying T'Pring. She was a cold, manipulative person who attempted to turn Spock into a murderer just so she could keep screwing her preferred boy toy -- which, by her own admission, she would've kept on doing anyway even if she had married Spock.

This T'Pring, as I went to some lengths to establish, was not the same person as the T'Pring from "Amok Time," but a distinct contrast from her. She'd been through different life experiences that had made her less selfish, more empathetic. She wasn't just a second chance for Spock, she was a better alternative.

As you saw in the book, Spock had no unfulfilled yearning to be with T'Pring; what he had was deep-seated resentment toward her for what she almost made him do to his best friend. He had to overcome that resentment and accept that this T'Pring was a very different person despite her physical equivalence. She could be what T'Pring Prime could never have been -- a source of generosity and support, a friend when Spock needed one most.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28 2012, 12:26 AM   #131
MatthiasRussell
Fleet Captain
 
MatthiasRussell's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Spock resented T'Pring but it seemed that there was still a deep attraction or need there. He mentioned how there is a connection when Vulcans are arranged to be mated as children. Spock's thoughts revealed the scent and appearance of T'Pring was arrousing to him. I got the sense that if she had been any other Vulcan, nothing would have developed between the 2. I perceived that Spock got closure by having intimacy with another version of T'Pring. However, I may be the only one who felt this way.

As to seeing Timeship Two, the only time I've seen a saucer seperated Connie was in an issue of Marvel Comics Star Trek Unlimited. It would be cool if the SOTL calendar would have more images from trek lit. I would love to see the authors work with the artists to visualize key scenes from the past year's literature.
__________________
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"
MatthiasRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28 2012, 02:43 AM   #132
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Spock resented T'Pring but it seemed that there was still a deep attraction or need there. He mentioned how there is a connection when Vulcans are arranged to be mated as children. Spock's thoughts revealed the scent and appearance of T'Pring was arrousing to him. I got the sense that if she had been any other Vulcan, nothing would have developed between the 2.
That wasn't what I meant to indicate. His response to her was physiological; he was in pon farr, and his body and brain reacted to her reflexively because her pheromones and telepathic signature were identical to those of the person he'd been bonded to as a child. It was hormones and instinct; I didn't mean to imply they were soulmates or anything.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28 2012, 03:14 AM   #133
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
bok2384 wrote: View Post
Oh, one little thing I wanted to mention. I may be way of here but Antonio Delgado being a "master manipulator" and a rather keen interest in time travel. Any allusion to The Master.
I admit I did come up with the name "Antonio Delgado" as an allusion to the two main actors to play the Master, but it was initially just a placeholder in the outline; I just never got around to changing it. And I'd forgotten about that when I wrote the "master manipulator" line.
I ended up picturing Roger Delgado as Admiral Delgado, and it totally works.

I really liked the Admiral Delgado character. He was an interesting twist on the "Evil Admiral" cliche. While definately an antagonist with his own agenda, he isn't really evil. Manipulative, at times a bastard, but he never once came off as villainous. Easily my favourite character in the book.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28 2012, 03:16 AM   #134
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

For what it's worth, I kinda had Hector Elizondo in mind as my mental image of Delgado.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28 2012, 03:22 AM   #135
Cy-Fox
Cadet
 
Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I nearly lost it


Loved Watching the Clock and it was well worth the wait for Forgotten History. Going to have a lot of inspiration on hand for Immortality Protocol Cy-Fox thanks to your style, Chris.

Last edited by Cy-Fox; April 28 2012 at 03:34 AM. Reason: Tag derpage
Cy-Fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:11 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.