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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Forgotten History.
Outstanding 56 51.38%
Above Average 39 35.78%
Average 9 8.26%
Below Average 3 2.75%
Poor 2 1.83%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 13 2012, 02:27 AM   #301
JD
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
By the way, Publishers Weekly magazine has begun publishing a bestseller list, and in the debut edition last week, Forgotten History was #10 in the Top 10 Science Fiction list -- and apparently was #4 in the unpublished list the week before (I guess they've been tracking the numbers internally). Neat!
Very cool!
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Old June 13 2012, 08:07 AM   #302
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

So, Christopher, how many more are planned in this series?
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Old June 13 2012, 01:15 PM   #303
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
By the way, Publishers Weekly magazine has begun publishing a bestseller list, and in the debut edition last week, Forgotten History was #10 in the Top 10 Science Fiction list -- and apparently was #4 in the unpublished list the week before (I guess they've been tracking the numbers internally). Neat!
That's excellent news
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Old June 13 2012, 01:33 PM   #304
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

stonester1 wrote: View Post
So, Christopher, how many more are planned in this series?
Book series generally don't work that way, at least not in Trek Lit. It's not like everything is plotted out years in advance. And DTI isn't really a full-on series; I did one book, then my editor suggested I do another. Maybe sometime, if the sales on the second one are good enough (and they seem to be doing okay for now), there'd be interest in doing a third. But there are no specific plans yet for anything further.
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Old June 13 2012, 01:57 PM   #305
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I suspect that if there ever is a novel where the characters of TOS meet their alternate nuTrek selves (as unlikely as it seems now), it'd be a perfect fit for DTI adventure. If only to definitively answer the question that has been plaguing the XI+ forum, off and on, for years now: Is Data's head buried under the San Fransisco of the Abramsverse?
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Old June 13 2012, 03:13 PM   #306
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
By the way, Publishers Weekly magazine has begun publishing a bestseller list, and in the debut edition last week, Forgotten History was #10 in the Top 10 Science Fiction list -- and apparently was #4 in the unpublished list the week before (I guess they've been tracking the numbers internally). Neat!
Congrats.

I guess with it selling well you at least hope to be asked to write more. You clearly enjoy the DTI characters.
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Old June 13 2012, 09:28 PM   #307
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
I suspect that if there ever is a novel where the characters of TOS meet their alternate nuTrek selves (as unlikely as it seems now), it'd be a perfect fit for DTI adventure.
Well, no, not really, as there is absolutely no way for the DTI of the prime universe to know about the Abramsverse. From the prime U's perspective, Nero and Spock vanished and were never seen again. There's no way for anyone to know where or when they went.

If you're suggesting that the Abramsverse DTI could get involved, then yes, there's stories there.

If only to definitively answer the question that has been plaguing the XI+ forum, off and on, for years now: Is Data's head buried under the San Fransisco of the Abramsverse?
There may not even be a Data in that universe - the likelihood of any of the TNG characters existing at all, given how wildly the universes diverged, is extremely low. And if there was a 'nuData', it's unlikely that his head will face the same fate. So my guess would be: No.
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Old June 13 2012, 10:07 PM   #308
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
I suspect that if there ever is a novel where the characters of TOS meet their alternate nuTrek selves (as unlikely as it seems now), it'd be a perfect fit for DTI adventure.
Well, no, not really, as there is absolutely no way for the DTI of the prime universe to know about the Abramsverse. From the prime U's perspective, Nero and Spock vanished and were never seen again. There's no way for anyone to know where or when they went.

If you're suggesting that the Abramsverse DTI could get involved, then yes, there's stories there.

If only to definitively answer the question that has been plaguing the XI+ forum, off and on, for years now: Is Data's head buried under the San Fransisco of the Abramsverse?
There may not even be a Data in that universe - the likelihood of any of the TNG characters existing at all, given how wildly the universes diverged, is extremely low. And if there was a 'nuData', it's unlikely that his head will face the same fate. So my guess would be: No.
The argument is that while there may not be a Data in the New Universe, both universes share the same past up until the timeline splits when Nero arrives. Therefore, when someone from the Prime-verse or the New-verse travel back in time to the 19th Century, they arrive at the same place. So the answer would be:yes.
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Old June 13 2012, 10:08 PM   #309
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
I suspect that if there ever is a novel where the characters of TOS meet their alternate nuTrek selves (as unlikely as it seems now), it'd be a perfect fit for DTI adventure.
Well, no, not really, as there is absolutely no way for the DTI of the prime universe to know about the Abramsverse. From the prime U's perspective, Nero and Spock vanished and were never seen again. There's no way for anyone to know where or when they went.

If you're suggesting that the Abramsverse DTI could get involved, then yes, there's stories there.
"Absolutely"? Where has your imagination gone? The DTI don't know about the STXI AU presently - but any number of ways can be invented or recycled for a crossover.
If only to definitively answer the question that has been plaguing the XI+ forum, off and on, for years now: Is Data's head buried under the San Fransisco of the Abramsverse?
There may not even be a Data in that universe - the likelihood of any of the TNG characters existing at all, given how wildly the universes diverged, is extremely low. And if there was a 'nuData', it's unlikely that his head will face the same fate. So my guess would be: No.
According to every official source, the universes diverged in 2233. Before that they were supposedly one and the same. But since Data's head is part of a recurring time loop with the 24th century of the Next Gen timeline, wouldn't the non-completion of the loop lead to a change in the 19th century and thus an earlier divergence point?
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Old June 13 2012, 10:28 PM   #310
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

We do have evidence of things from one timeline branch remaining in another branch after the point of divergence, for instance, Chief O'Brien in "Visionary" onward. So I think that something originating in one branch of a timeline fork and travelling back before the fork into the common history would remain present in both forks after the divergence. At least, that's the simplest, least convoluted answer, and time travel is enough of a headache without complicating it more than necessary.
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Old June 13 2012, 10:33 PM   #311
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
According to every official source, the universes diverged in 2233. Before that they were supposedly one and the same. But since Data's head is part of a recurring time loop with the 24th century of the Next Gen timeline, wouldn't the non-completion of the loop lead to a change in the 19th century and thus an earlier divergence point?
I actually prefer the theory that the Abramsverse and prime universe were always separate - meaning, they didn't branch off, they always ran in parallel.

If you subscribe to the 'branch' theory, then Data's head would probably go undiscovered - it came from an alternate timeline. There is not likely to be a Data in that universe, so nobody will recognize the head - IIRC, the only reason anybody thought about it in the prime timeline is that they recognized that it was Data. With no Data, that can't happen; if somebody stumbles across the head, they won't know who or what it was. It will probably end up in a lab somewhere. Who knows if it could even be activated without a body to attach.

And given that the technology of the Abramsverse is obviously more advanced (and that's in 2233 - their 24th century will be unrecognizable), nobody will get anything useful out of it anyway.

As for the DTI: Like I said, the Abrams-DTI could find out what happened (our main characters certainly have), but there's no way the 'prime' DTI could. Nero and Spock vanished and were never seen again. Assuming their departure was witnessed, there'd still be no reason to suspect time travel. A black hole swallowed them up. There'd be EVERY reason to suspect they were dead.
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Old June 13 2012, 10:49 PM   #312
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I actually prefer the theory that the Abramsverse and prime universe were always separate - meaning, they didn't branch off, they always ran in parallel.
A few years ago, people were insisting the same thing about Enterprise -- that it wasn't part of the same reality as the Trek they were used to. A quarter-century ago they were saying it about TNG. So that's just an old song repeating itself as far as I'm concerned, and I don't find it an appealing view. It's more fun when you can draw connections between different facets of the Trek universe.

If the movie had been meant to be completely unconnected to what came before, they wouldn't have bothered to coax Leonard Nimoy out of retirement. I mean, seriously, the story would've been more cohesive in some ways without all the time travel and Old Spock showing up to give an infodump. The only reason to tell the story they told was to make this both a new beginning and a direct continuation, to establish a throughline to what had come before.
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Old June 13 2012, 11:12 PM   #313
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
We do have evidence of things from one timeline branch remaining in another branch after the point of divergence, for instance, Chief O'Brien in "Visionary" onward. So I think that something originating in one branch of a timeline fork and travelling back before the fork into the common history would remain present in both forks after the divergence. At least, that's the simplest, least convoluted answer, and time travel is enough of a headache without complicating it more than necessary.
I agree it should be there (otherwise surely Nero and Old Spock would have vanished too?), but doesn't that mean all so-called time loops/predestination paradoxes are an illusion created by our multiverse POV? We just happened to be in the correct branch of history to make it appear meaningful?

Makes me wonder what other "orphaned" temporal artifacts there are out there...
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Old June 13 2012, 11:15 PM   #314
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

It's probably not a timeline fork - more like a timeline spoon or chopstick.
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Old June 13 2012, 11:21 PM   #315
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Mr Laser Beam wrote:
And given that the technology of the Abramsverse is obviously more advanced (and that's in 2233 - their 24th century will be unrecognizable), nobody will get
anything useful out of it anyway
I think you're confusing "more advanced" in-universe technology with updated production values. Look at the Gorn from "Arena" - was it a guy in an obviously fake rubber suit, or was it a fearsome and intelligent lizard monster? It's the latter, obviously - and in that same way, the Enterprise is a 23rd century technological marvel, whether it's the way it looked to us in 1966 or 2009.

It's probably not a timeline fork - more like a timeline spoon or chopstick.
I dub it a time spork!
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