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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Forgotten History.
Outstanding 56 50.45%
Above Average 40 36.04%
Average 10 9.01%
Below Average 3 2.70%
Poor 2 1.80%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 11 2012, 04:48 PM   #241
RPJOB
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Kertrats47 wrote: View Post
RPJOB wrote: View Post
Mike Winters wrote: View Post

I think you should read Forgotten History, the novel explains why time travel seemed to focus on the Enterprise and her command crew and not as common as one would expect with the experiences they learned.

Besides, since you are a fan of Christopher's other works, if you buy this novel, it will help grow his royalty check so he can continue to write novels that we love.

Mike
I read Watching the Clock. I'm not saying that it's bad by any means but I didn't enjoy it as much as Christopher's other works. Just personal taste.

The idea that there's something special about the TOS crew just doesn't sit right with me. In my mind, they're fairly typical of Starfleet crews with a few exceptions (V'Ger, whale probe). I imagine that most of the other capital ships of Starfleet (Constitution, Miranda, Excelsior, not Oberth) have had pretty similar situations with god-like races, energy beings, crazy computers, runaway killing machines, etc. We just don't see them, we're focused on the Enterprise. Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Again, you are making assumptions that aren't valid. If you read Forgotten History, you would realize that Christopher isn't making the claim that there is anything particularly "special" about the TOS crew. However, there is a very specific reason why they were involved in so many time-travel incidents. It has nothing to do with any inherent "special-ness" of the crew. If that were merely the case, it wouldn't sit well with me either. Thankfully, the answer provided by Christopher is much more substantial and interesting than that.
When I'm talking about the crew I'm including the ship. It's not like they plucked them off the Enterprise and put them on another ship or put a different crew aboard the Big E. For whatever reason, having something special about a particular ship and crew just feels wrong to me. But then, I'm not a fan of the whole "absolute best crew in the fleet bar none. Everyone else pales in comparison." thing about Kirk & company doesn't work for me. Even in cases where other Constitution class ships have been destroyed (Defiant, Intrepid, Constellation) the Enterprise crew knew that something had happened to them. They had more information going in than the first ships did. That made the difference.
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Old May 11 2012, 09:22 PM   #242
Mike Winters
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[QUOTE=RPJOB;6325306]
Kertrats47 wrote: View Post
When I'm talking about the crew I'm including the ship. It's not like they plucked them off the Enterprise and put them on another ship or put a different crew aboard the Big E. For whatever reason, having something special about a particular ship and crew just feels wrong to me. But then, I'm not a fan of the whole "absolute best crew in the fleet bar none. Everyone else pales in comparison." thing about Kirk & company doesn't work for me. Even in cases where other Constitution class ships have been destroyed (Defiant, Intrepid, Constellation) the Enterprise crew knew that something had happened to them. They had more information going in than the first ships did. That made the difference.
If you read the novel, you will learn that a particular event in the ships history (that occurred on TV) fundamentally changed the components of the ship and how they interacted with Space & Time. The conditions of the event were such that they they could not be easily duplicated despite many such attempts.

The novel also explains how Kirk, Spock & Scotty later (long after the TV TOS time frame) obtained the knowledge which allowed them to duplicate the conditions in other cases, and why they chose to conceal this knowledge for as long as possible. They understood better than anyone, the danger of tampering with the timeline, so they concealed this knowledge.

As time wore on, each of the major powers had their own version of the DTI as WTC showed. By the time the ability to have other ships perform these maneuvers was learned, there were organizations in place to oversee/control/regulate/prevent them in order to safeguard the timeline.

Mike

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Old May 11 2012, 10:47 PM   #243
ToddCam
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher: Very good points!
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Old May 11 2012, 11:33 PM   #244
Christopher
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

RPJOB, again, you really have no business judging a book you haven't read, so I don't know why you're even participating in this conversation. But I will say that I'm no more fond than you are of treating one crew as "above" all the others. That certainly wasn't my intention here. On the contrary, my intention was to provide a more palatable, reasonable explanation for why Kirk and the Enterprise seemed to have an exceptional degree of experience with time travel, why they were responsible for so many temporal firsts within such a short amount of time, and why they employed time travel so often even though it made sense that its use would be uncommon. As you say, what made the difference was that their experiences gave them extra information. Read the book and you'll see what I mean.
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Old May 12 2012, 12:43 AM   #245
Therin of Andor
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

RPJOB wrote: View Post
having something special about a particular ship and crew just feels wrong to me.
You mean like giving them their own live-action TV series, an animated continuation, a string of movies, hundreds of tie-in novels, plus short stories, comics and action figures?
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Old May 12 2012, 07:54 AM   #246
Stoek
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
It was a passing reference so I didn't research the issue in depth.
Didn't... Research... But... But...

Now I don't believe in nothin'. Nothin'! NOTHIN'!
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Old May 12 2012, 03:09 PM   #247
JWD75
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I enjoyed the book quite a bit. It does a great job of fitting the TOS time travel stories into a coherent framework. I'm seriously considering doing a kitbash of either Timeship 1 or 2.
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Old May 12 2012, 03:40 PM   #248
Christopher
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JWD75 wrote: View Post
I'm seriously considering doing a kitbash of either Timeship 1 or 2.
That would be cool. I was hoping someone would take a stab at one or both.
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Old May 12 2012, 08:56 PM   #249
JamesHunter
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Hi so this is my first post... Glad to be here and looking forwards to making a contribution...

Just wanted to say thank you to Mr Bennett for yet another great book, outstanding as usual.

I have to say I agree that bringing TAS in was alot of fun (at least the bits that make sense, the animated series being a little...inconsistant...at times after all).

Also enjoyed the stuff relating to Miri, which I always figured was so bad no one would touch it with a ten foot barge pole, but turned out very well.

Any chance of a Myriad universe story set in that universe, from what we saw a Trek without humanity sounds very interesting?

Keep up the good work and looking forward to Only Superhuman.

(Hey theres smiles! ...)

Last edited by JamesHunter; May 12 2012 at 08:57 PM. Reason: I can't spell :(
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Old May 13 2012, 03:03 AM   #250
Kertrats47
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Mike Winters wrote: View Post
If you read the novel, you will learn that a particular event in the ships history (that occurred on TV) fundamentally changed the components of the ship and how they interacted with Space & Time. The conditions of the event were such that they they could not be easily duplicated despite many such attempts.

The novel also explains how Kirk, Spock & Scotty later (long after the TV TOS time frame) obtained the knowledge which allowed them to duplicate the conditions in other cases, and why they chose to conceal this knowledge for as long as possible. They understood better than anyone, the danger of tampering with the timeline, so they concealed this knowledge.

As time wore on, each of the major powers had their own version of the DTI as WTC showed. By the time the ability to have other ships perform these maneuvers was learned, there were organizations in place to oversee/control/regulate/prevent them in order to safeguard the timeline.

Mike

Mike

Yes, exactly. It's nothing inherently "special" about how awesome and brave and wonderful or whatever the crew or the ship is. If the USS Yorktown or the USS Rutherford or the USS Surak had gone through the same thing, it would have been that ship and crew that were the focus of the experiments.
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Old May 14 2012, 10:32 AM   #251
Mage
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Oh man, I'm getting behind in my reading!! I only just ordered this one, should arrive in about a week and a half. Good thing I re-read Watching The Clock last week though, should make getting back into the DTI easier.
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Old May 14 2012, 03:21 PM   #252
MatthiasRussell
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
JWD75 wrote: View Post
I'm seriously considering doing a kitbash of either Timeship 1 or 2.
That would be cool. I was hoping someone would take a stab at one or both.
This would be fairly easy to do. Round 2 puts out a set that has the original Connie, the A, and the B (1/2500 scale) in a single box for around $20. It would be easy to kitbash a small model.

I'm making all the Enterprises in 1/2500 right now. I might just try this with some spare parts if I get the time.
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Old May 14 2012, 04:00 PM   #253
Christopher
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

These days, I gather that "kitbash" can be used for digital models as well as physical, so I wasn't making assumptions about what medium would be used.
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Old May 14 2012, 04:42 PM   #254
Reanok
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I really enjoyed reading this novel and the story included ties to the
Enterprise episodes from season 4 in your book.I like this DTI novel better than the first novel. Because it was about Captain Kirk and his crew and the mysteries that were unraveled in this book were interesting.
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Old May 15 2012, 01:22 PM   #255
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Finished the novel yesterday - a great companion piece to both Ex Machina and Watching the Clock

now on to The Rings of Time...
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