Invasion and Millennium series and current continuity

[Hando]

I just wanted to know whether the Invasion and Millennium series are compatible with current continuity.

Are their back-stories, like the existence of Furies, Uncleans and Grigari, still compatible with the current knowledge?

[Relayer1]

I think so - the Millennium series has a big reset and I can't remember much about Invasion.

I do recall not liking either series much though. Not much at all.

[ATimson]

Invasion! is compatible. (There's a reference to the Furies in SCE: "Ring Around the Sky", and one of the characters from Time's Enemy appeared recently... I believe in the first DTI book.)

Millennium is mostly compatible - I'm not sure the epilogue is anymore.

[ryan123450]

One of the SCE ebooks references the Invasion series, so it is part of the current Lit-verse.

Edit: Beat by ATimson.

[Christopher]

ATimson wrote:

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Millennium is mostly compatible - I'm not sure the epilogue is anymore.

There's nothing in the epilogue that's blatantly incompatible. There is a difference in assumptions, but it's vague enough that it's easy to reconcile -- certainly no harder than reconciling the many contradictions that already exist in Trek canon, or the ones that have gotten into the Trek Lit continuity despite our best efforts.

[Deranged Nasat]

ATimson wrote:

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Invasion! is compatible. (There's a reference to the Furies in SCE: "Ring Around the Sky", and one of the characters from Time's Enemy appeared recently... I believe in the first DTI book.)

Millennium is mostly compatible - I'm not sure the epilogue is anymore.

On the other hand, since said epilogue concerns (at least implicitly) the possibilities of travel and interaction between multiple timelines and realities, all interconnected through the Celestial Temple, it pretty much fits regardless. I relate to the epilogue the way I relate to the Garak story in Prophecy and Change - as something that doesn't take place in the same "reality" as the mainstream novel 'verse, but is relevant to that continuity regardless, because of its context and how the setting describes realities of the Trek multiverse that transcend simple notions of space and time. (I hope that makes sense to everyone). I suppose it's not too far removed from how the Myriad Universes story Places of Exile is directly relevant to the prime continuity even though its events "never happened". Or, for the continuity-obsessed reader (like myself) how all the MyU and Mirror Universe novels are relevant to the Novel 'Verse even as they stand outside its primary continuity.

As for Invasion, I think it's a "Broad Strokes" thing, like with Stargazer or New Frontier - references (like those in SCE) demonstrate that those events happened, that those stories took place in the "mainstream" continuity (and that Furies and Unclean are considered, at least, to have existed in the mainstream novel 'verse) but not all the details add up exactly.

For my part, I like to keep Time's Enemy as part of my "personal reread continuity" and ignore the rest of the series, while assuming something vaguely like them happened. But that's me being picky, because Time's Enemy is the only one I really like.

[Allyn Gibson]

ATimson wrote:

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Invasion! is compatible. (There's a reference to the Furies in SCE: "Ring Around the Sky", and one of the characters from Time's Enemy appeared recently... I believe in the first DTI book.)

Millennium is mostly compatible - I'm not sure the epilogue is anymore.

ryan123450 wrote:

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One of the SCE ebooks references the Invasion series, so it is part of the current Lit-verse.

Specifically...

First, the Furies built the Kharzh'ullan space elevators, which the Tellarite colonists then refurbished and used in the 24th-century.

If I remember correctly, my thinking was this -- in a universe of cheap energy and easy matter transportation (which describes the Star Trek universe pretty well), space elevators don't make a lot of sense because they're much more expensive (in terms of energy and materials) than transporters would be. So the elevators needed to be built by someone who specialized in brute force engineering. That, to me, said the Furies because what we saw in Invasion! indicated a people whose development skipped the easy and elegant tech we see in the 23rd- and 24th-centuries. Also, the Furies weren't really a bad people; they happened to be on the losing side of history in lot of ways through no fault of their own (which is why I don't like what Janeway does to them in The Final Fury), but they built a starspanning civilization and they should have left interesting (and useful) relics behind. So I wanted to show a different side to their legacy.

Second, I put Tev on one of the other Starfleet ships in Soldiers of Fear. In retrospect, I probably wouldn't do this now if I were writing Ring today; I didn't do anything with it, and it didn't go anywhere. That said, some of the other SCE authors told me they thought that was a neat touch.

[Hando]

Thank you all.

So the 100,000-year-long war ought to be much shorter, or is more allegoric. Maybe both sides concentrated only on each other and ignored every other race. Otherwise the war would intersect with several events, some canon and some mentioned in other books.

This means the Grigari are still around. A race that can kick the Borg around?
Now that I am thinking about it the original story of STO was supposed to have a enemy from the Beta Quadrant - a connection?
Is it possible that they will be an enemy of the 25th-26th century UFP?

[Christopher]

^STO is not consistent with the novel continuity. It's borrowed a few characters and ideas, but contradicted a lot of other things from it.

[Hando]

Christopher wrote:

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^STO is not consistent with the novel continuity. It's borrowed a few characters and ideas, but contradicted a lot of other things from it.

Sorry, that was something I recalled from info on the "Perpetual Entertainment" STO version. And I have no idea how that one would have been compatible with the novelverse.

[Relayer1]

ATimson wrote:

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Millennium is mostly compatible - I'm not sure the epilogue is anymore.

Not having my copy to hand, what's the issue with the epilogue ?

[Allyn Gibson]

Relayer1 wrote:

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Not having my copy to hand, what's the issue with the epilogue ?

My copy isn't at hand either, but if I remember it correctly, the epilogue suggests that, as of two years after "What You Leave Behind," Sisko is still lost and presumed dead.

[ATimson]

Allyn Gibson wrote:

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My copy isn't at hand either, but if I remember it correctly, the epilogue suggests that, as of two years after "What You Leave Behind," Sisko is still lost and presumed dead.

That's the big thing. I also thought it got the gender of the kai wrong, but after researching on Memory Beta it looks like the kai at that point probably was, indeed, female.

[ryan123450]

For me compatibilty isn't an issue of weather there are continuity differences. There are minor continuity glitches throughout the Lit-verse and minor and major ones throughout canon. What matters is weather the book is intended to be a part of the modern continuity by references to it, or by other works in the Lit-verse making reference to that work in question.

In the case of Invasion, references have been made to it, but as far as I know (something tells me someone may prove me wrong), no references have been made to Millennium, nor did it reference anything else.

[Allyn Gibson]

ryan123450 wrote:

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In the case of Invasion, references have been made to it, but as far as I know (something tells me someone may prove me wrong), no references have been made to Millennium, nor did it reference anything else.

I can't think of a reference to Millennium in the larger Lit-verse, and I don't believe it referenced anything. If I remember correctly, Marco's view on Millennium was the same as his view on A Stitch In Time; the books weren't part of the DS9 relaunch proper but they were as valid a part of the relaunch universe as the television series itself.