RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,355
Posts: 5,503,042
Members: 25,121
Currently online: 460
Newest member: MsMarrielle

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11

Frakes: Sign Me Up!
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 9 2012, 03:53 AM   #436
Alpha Flyer
Lieutenant Commander
 
Alpha Flyer's Avatar
 
Location: Off the Shoulder of Orion
View Alpha Flyer's Twitter Profile
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

I don't think you do this episode justice in your comments. It was one of the more gripping, if not harrowing, explorations of torture/inhumane justice ever done on ST, second only to the TNG episode "Chain of Command". (BTW detainees in the Akritiri system weren't drugged; they were subject to an implant into their brain -- "the clamp" -- that stimulates natural aggressive tendencies, essentially setting inmates against each other like fighting dogs.)

The episode is also a pretty deep exploration of the friendship between Tom and Harry, starting with Tom saving Harry's life at the very beginning (no doubt drawing on his prior experience as a jailbird, and aware how the pecking order there works) and then getting stabbed protecting him -- which in turn leads to the reversal of their traditional roles. Ultimately, with Harry beating himself up over almost having killed his best friend, Tom then comes back to save him from those thoughts ("This man is my friend -- I'll remember that for a very long time.") Pretty powerful stuff.

The Action-Kate aspects were a bit less successful, in my mind, although there was a nice bit of continuity remembering that Neelix' old ship was still in one of the shuttle bays.

All in all, one of the finest hours of Voyager -- although difficult to watch if you've ever spent any time dealing with real-life human rights abuse situations, especially when it comes to conditions of detention.
__________________
A tidy home is the sign of a misspent life.

You are welcome to check out my fanfic at http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2537553/Alpha_Flyer
Alpha Flyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2012, 04:08 AM   #437
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

When I first saw The Chute I was insanely pleased with all that Tom/Paris subtext but really that's all you get for the whole series. I think it's a standout episode that has a quite different feel to much of the show.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2012, 04:12 AM   #438
Alpha Flyer
Lieutenant Commander
 
Alpha Flyer's Avatar
 
Location: Off the Shoulder of Orion
View Alpha Flyer's Twitter Profile
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

There's some more of that in "Thirty Days," but yeah -- the whole ex-Con thing was seriously under-exploited. I've had a ball with it in my stories as a result -- lots of empty room left in which to maneuver!
__________________
A tidy home is the sign of a misspent life.

You are welcome to check out my fanfic at http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2537553/Alpha_Flyer
Alpha Flyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2012, 04:22 AM   #439
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

I meant to rewatch this one for this thread but I forgot since I was avoiding Sacred Ground.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2012, 05:33 AM   #440
Qutluch
Commander
 
Qutluch's Avatar
 
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

Alpha Flyer wrote: View Post
I don't think you do this episode justice in your comments. It was one of the more gripping, if not harrowing, explorations of torture/inhumane justice ever done on ST, second only to the TNG episode "Chain of Command". (BTW detainees in the Akritiri system weren't drugged; they were subject to an implant into their brain -- "the clamp" -- that stimulates natural aggressive tendencies, essentially setting inmates against each other like fighting dogs.)

The episode is also a pretty deep exploration of the friendship between Tom and Harry, starting with Tom saving Harry's life at the very beginning (no doubt drawing on his prior experience as a jailbird, and aware how the pecking order there works) and then getting stabbed protecting him -- which in turn leads to the reversal of their traditional roles. Ultimately, with Harry beating himself up over almost having killed his best friend, Tom then comes back to save him from those thoughts ("This man is my friend -- I'll remember that for a very long time.") Pretty powerful stuff.

The Action-Kate aspects were a bit less successful, in my mind, although there was a nice bit of continuity remembering that Neelix' old ship was still in one of the shuttle bays.

All in all, one of the finest hours of Voyager -- although difficult to watch if you've ever spent any time dealing with real-life human rights abuse situations, especially when it comes to conditions of detention.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote. I didn't think it was a bad episode at all; I was just watching it while I worked, so my write-up was short. Thanks for the correction on the "clamp". I must have walked away when they described it. I will have to make a point to re-watch this when I am not so distracted!
__________________
"I AM NOT A MERRY MAN!" ~ Lt. Worf
Qutluch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2012, 05:35 AM   #441
Qutluch
Commander
 
Qutluch's Avatar
 
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

teacock wrote: View Post
I meant to rewatch this one for this thread but I forgot since I was avoiding Sacred Ground.
Yeah, I had a hard time with Sacred Ground; the "seemingly" rattlesnake business just made it worse for me!
__________________
"I AM NOT A MERRY MAN!" ~ Lt. Worf
Qutluch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2012, 07:03 AM   #442
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

It's weird though as it features as much Janeway as we will ever get to see so really it should be beyond awesome



btw Kirsten Beyer who writes the VOY Treklit at the moment credits Sacred Ground as having an impact on the spiritual parts of her last Voyager book, The Eternal Tide. I didn't actually notice those bits but since it was Treklit I may have been on auto-skim once it started trying to be meaningful (no besmirch here meant to Beyer, to each their own and if it works more power to it).
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2012, 11:18 AM   #443
donners22
Commodore
 
donners22's Avatar
 
Location: Victoria, Australia
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

I didn't mind Sacred Ground at all. It's an interesting concept, throwing Janeway into a situation where she was initially dismissive (if not politely contemptuous) of the society's beliefs and practices and forcing her to put aside her prejudice to save Kes.

I'm a lot more forgiving with episodes which take a chance and try to do something different than those which are more formulaic.


PS - thanks to Teacake for directing me to this thread. I've just finished re-watching this season, and it's interesting to see another perspective.
__________________
Kim: I'm detecting some weird technobabble.
Janeway: A possibly dangerous anomaly that we know nothing about?
Kim: Yeah. I suppose we should steer clear.
Janeway: Ha! Good one, Ensign. Take us in, Mr. Paris.

http://www.fiveminute.net/voyager
donners22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12 2012, 10:39 PM   #444
tomswift2002
Fleet Captain
 
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

I've always thought of "Sacred Ground" as the Trek's opposite argument to the view points expressed in TNG's "Who Watches The Watchers?", with SG discussing how somethings will and can never be explained by science.
tomswift2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12 2012, 10:55 PM   #445
Alpha Flyer
Lieutenant Commander
 
Alpha Flyer's Avatar
 
Location: Off the Shoulder of Orion
View Alpha Flyer's Twitter Profile
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

The most interesting thing for me about SG is that it was Robert Duncan McNeill's first outing as a director. Regardless of what one may think of the plot, his shots show an intimacy and originality that is lacking in the often routine (or rote) direction of many of the regulars. The beginning of a solid behind-the-scenes career.
__________________
A tidy home is the sign of a misspent life.

You are welcome to check out my fanfic at http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2537553/Alpha_Flyer
Alpha Flyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12 2012, 11:27 PM   #446
Qutluch
Commander
 
Qutluch's Avatar
 
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

The Swarm

The opening with the Doctor singing was hysterical! Was that actually Picardo, or a voice over? The Doctor begins showing signs of degradation in his programing. The easiest solution would be to reinitialize his entire network, but this would erase the two years of experiences that he’s accumulated as the EMH on Voyager. Kes begs him and Janeway to look for an alternative solution. Kes pleads with the Doctor that he will not remember their friendship if they don’t look for a different solution and Janeway agrees that they should at least attempt one.

Meanwhile, Janeway and the crew are looking for a way to cut through a region of alien space. Going around it would take up to 15 months at maximum warp, so Janeway decides to forego Federation law and trespass anyways, despite Tuvok’s protests and eye raises. The alien space is guarded by a sensor grid, but it also bottlenecks at a point, making the crossing only about 4 days at maximum velocity. Harry finds a way to enter the alien space without setting off the boundary grids. (I think he might be growing on me…maybe). Once on the other side they discover a swarm of thousands of tiny ships adrift in space, but don’t alert them to their presence.

The Doctor makes a horrible patient. B’ellana tests his circuitry and motor abilities, at one point making him go blind. He screams and waves his hand furiously in front of his face. Eventually, she decides to use the holographic diagnostic tool, which has a virtual Dr. Zimmerman. (I love seeing an actor play multiple roles like this. Picardo must have had a ball with this episode, and he did a tremendous job)! He berates B’ellana’s attempts at saving the doctor, saying that the system wasn’t designed for continual use. At most, the system was designed for 1,500 hours (2 months).The Doctor has stage 4 memory fragmentatio, which was caused by his continual learning. He wasn’t designed to store the capacity that his 2 year existence has given him.

The crew discovered a damaged ship drifting through space. They beam the one survivor over and he tells them that his craft were attacked by the swarm of ships. He dies, but as Voyager is getting ready to continue on their way, a swarm ship that has been hiding on the base of the alien vessel appears. It shoots them with a proton burst, which acts like a signal flare to the alien ships. The swarm becomes active and begins a pursuit.

As the Doctor gets worse, Kes begs virtual Dr. Zimmerman to find another solution. She suggests that they attempt a graft of his own matrix to the Doctor’s matrix, allowing his matrix to reestablish itself off of it. Dr. Zimmerman agrees, but informs her that it will destroy himself in the process. They attempt it, and both holographs disappear, but eventually The Doctor reappears and seems to have forgotten who Kes is. However, he does begin to hum; hopefully his memories will return. I really hope that in the next episode everything is not fine and dandy with him, I would like to see him regain his memories, and hopefully he will finally give himself a stupid name!

The swarm attacks, and when Voyager fires on it, they reflect the phaser directly rebounds back on Voyager. The shields drop, and the minions begin to board the ship. Voyager disrupts the lattice matrix that links the ships together, and they retreat. Overall, I enjoyed this episode. Both lines of the story were good! I just don’t understand how Janeway can overlook some things that will save them time (like cutting through a hostile aliens space who do not want them there), but she will not save time by cutting a deal with Q’s jailers; a deal that would automatically bring them home…I wish they would develop that moral line better with Janeway. You never know from episode to episode what she will morally overlook for the betterment of the crew…

Favorite part: When the Doctor temporarily went blind!

Least favorite part: That the Doctor’s memories were not returned in this episode. One of my least favorite things about this series is that often things are not explained or reexamined in future episodes; everything is simply fine. I would really like to see the Doctor fully get his memory back, and if he does I hope they show it!
__________________
"I AM NOT A MERRY MAN!" ~ Lt. Worf
Qutluch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12 2012, 11:35 PM   #447
Alpha Flyer
Lieutenant Commander
 
Alpha Flyer's Avatar
 
Location: Off the Shoulder of Orion
View Alpha Flyer's Twitter Profile
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

Don't tell me you missed the beginning of the famous Paris/Torres courtship ... ("I'd rather take my chances with Ensign Bristow...") :-)
__________________
A tidy home is the sign of a misspent life.

You are welcome to check out my fanfic at http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2537553/Alpha_Flyer
Alpha Flyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12 2012, 11:58 PM   #448
Qutluch
Commander
 
Qutluch's Avatar
 
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

The bit of flirting?
__________________
"I AM NOT A MERRY MAN!" ~ Lt. Worf
Qutluch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13 2012, 12:00 AM   #449
Alpha Flyer
Lieutenant Commander
 
Alpha Flyer's Avatar
 
Location: Off the Shoulder of Orion
View Alpha Flyer's Twitter Profile
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

The beginning of a beautiful ... something.
__________________
A tidy home is the sign of a misspent life.

You are welcome to check out my fanfic at http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2537553/Alpha_Flyer
Alpha Flyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13 2012, 03:56 AM   #450
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: My first voyage with Voyager

So much for spoiler free comments.

The Swarm was a good episode, but it kinda was a push of the reset button with the Doctor. Apparently the writers preferred him as he was earlier on. Rude and what not.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:15 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.