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Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

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Old April 14 2012, 07:45 PM   #16
Ian Keldon
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

^I could go on for pages about how off-base you are, but I'll settle for two points:

1) Apparently you're watching a different Starship Exeter. Exeter is all about doing Classic Trek in the Classic way.

2) You hold up Abrams as an example of how it "should be done"? Yes, by all means lets learn how to make better Star Trek media by copying Star Wars' style and tone...

You accuse fan films of being too insular and safe...as well as being the intellectual equivalent of "junk food"...so what does Abrams bring us? Kirk/Spock friendship trope. Spock struggles with his heritage trope. Revenge-driven villain trope. All dressed up in lens flares, lots of "run and jump" and "pew-pew-pew". Your example of how Trek films should be made is the perfect example of everything you claim to decry in fan-films...
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Old April 14 2012, 08:22 PM   #17
MacLeod
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

Zeppster wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
[by] Avian

...It's rather unfathomable that someone who holds an aging property that has very little chance of making much more money would not consent to a high-quality series that is merely based upon the premise...
"Avian's" poor-mouthing to the contrary, if I were the rights-holder to Lost In Space I certainly wouldn't view it as a property having "very little chance" of being profitable in the future.

Yep, the big-budget movie made in the 90s failed at the box office.
Yep, the 2003 WB series never made it to air.

So, where's the remaining value in such a property?

Ask Tim Burton and Warner Bros. They're about to release Dark Shadows - based on a cult TV series from about the same era as Lost In Space. DS spawned a couple of cheap movies in the 1970s, a big-budget TV miniseries made in the 90s that failed in the ratings...and a 2004 WB series that never made it to air.

There are reasons that producers keep coming back to properties like this. Someone fortunate enough to own the rights to this one might reasonably expect Hollywood to come back around for another pass at it, and if I owned it I'd protect the hell out of it right now.
Or look at Doctor Who which fell apart in the late 80s in ratings made a bad, not well liked and basically failed revival in a movie in the 90s. But in part because in part because of fan audio productions and the revival series in the 2000 became a huge success and the show basically has no end. Something like a web show can easily help bring back a show.
Well in the case of DW, the controller of BBC1 basically made sure it wopuld be cancelled by moving it opposite the top show on ITV. Then they could justify it by claiming low ratings, much like the so called Friday Night Death Slot on US Networks.

As for the 1996 TV strictly speaking it was a success in the UK drawing in some 10m viewers from memory. When DW did return to TV some 8 years later I believe "Rose" got something like 9m viewers. So from a ratings point of view in the UK is was a success. In the US not so much so.

From memory I believe what prevented DW from retuurning earlier than 2004 was the rights were with BBC Worldwide part of the BBC rather than with BBC1
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Old April 15 2012, 01:16 AM   #18
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

Maurice and Middy are basically right, of course. The thing about fan efforts is that they're just about always most successful at expressing the enthusiasm of their makers for the specifics of the thing they admire and the feelings that those familiar elements - music, costuming, the acting and narrative style, the continuity - evoke in them as fans.

The guys who wrote and produced Abrams's movie along with him - Roberto Orci, for one - are "guilty" of the same thing; they're fans and even in the process of creating a mass entertainment that has to appeal to people who don't know much about the original they find ways to inject what they remember and what appeals to them. It's been suggested that a lot of what we're seeing in movie theaters in general these days reflects the fact that a generation of skiffy fans is now writing and directing big commercial movies.
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Old April 15 2012, 03:44 AM   #19
Ryan Thomas Riddle
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
^I could go on for pages about how off-base you are, but I'll settle for two points:

1) Apparently you're watching a different Starship Exeter. Exeter is all about doing Classic Trek in the Classic way.
Maybe so. For more on my opinion on this subject, here's what I wrote in the Fan Film Writers thread:

middyseafort wrote: View Post


My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
As one of the creators of the unfinished Exeter episode (writer, effects, some art design, but certainly not the creative force who made the whole thing happen; that would be Jimm Johnson, obviously, and I can't speak for him) I'm flattered by the notion that we aspired to "transform" what we were recreating but I'm not convinced that it's so, much less that we were at all successful at that. So many of those decisions that were discussed among us (again, not speaking for those made by the producers among themselves) were very much of the "how closely can we hew to the technique as well as the spirit of the original?" For example, our shots of the ship don't look old-fashioned next to Phase II's simply because we didn't know how to light them more dimensionally or animate more dynamically, but because we wanted them to look as much like something you might actually have seen on Trek TOS as we could.
Maybe, Dennis, I'm a bit overzealous in my enthusiasm for STARSHIP EXETER, which certainly does capture the original spirit of the original. And I love that it does try to replicate the 60s effects, which shows much more imagination to solve a creative problem than throwing up a CGI starship zipping around phasers at full blast, imo.

That being said, I've always felt that the writing was doing something more than other fan films in this particular genre, giving us characters that were actively trying to solve a problem rather than merely reacting to the events taking place. More than that, it feels as if there was also an attempt to play on several TREK tropes, like the pretty yeoman, rather than merely replicate them.

STARSHIP EXTER not only captured the spirit of the original, but gave us something wholly new with its characters and story. Then again, it's the high bar that all fan films aspire to reach for me. Well, that and "World Enough and Time."
Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
Emphasis mine
2) You hold up Abrams as an example of how it "should be done"? Yes, by all means lets learn how to make better Star Trek media by copying Star Wars' style and tone...

You accuse fan films of being too insular and safe...as well as being the intellectual equivalent of "junk food"...so what does Abrams bring us? Kirk/Spock friendship trope. Spock struggles with his heritage trope. Revenge-driven villain trope. All dressed up in lens flares, lots of "run and jump" and "pew-pew-pew". Your example of how Trek films should be made is the perfect example of everything you claim to decry in fan-films...
This is the same generic, superficial drivel of an argument trotted out by those who constantly feel the need to prove that the new TREK isn't really TREK. I could go on for pages, but I won't ... it's not worth the effort.

Moreover, your last statement shows to me that you read what I said, but you didn't really listen to what I said.
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Old April 15 2012, 03:52 AM   #20
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

There may be worthwhile criticisms of Abrams's movie out there somewhere, but they're not being posted by Trek fans on Trekbbs.
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Old April 15 2012, 03:53 AM   #21
Ryan Thomas Riddle
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
There may be worthwhile criticisms of Abrams's movie out there somewhere, but they're not being posted by Trek fans on Trekbbs.
Completely agree. In fact, I have a few of my own. But I rarely post them here because any worthwhile critical analysis quickly degrades into elementary schoolyard name calling.
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Old April 15 2012, 08:05 AM   #22
Maurice
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

Maurice wrote: View Post
I think you overstate how "fresh" these approaches are. Too many of these films ape the most formulaic and tired conventions of Star Trek even if their setting is different, especially of the "shields down to nobodycares" variety.
I should add that I'm trying to shoot down all of the productions cited by Barbreader, but that I think we can mistake superficial differences for being more than what they are. You might have a whole new setting but fall back into a lot of the cliches.

If "The Atlantis Invaders" had ever been produced I think that would have illustrated some of what I'm in agreement with Middy about. In my rewrite I tried to focus on "fixing" some of the broken formulaic crap I'd seen Star Trek shows doing, and without pushing it so far as to not feel like Star Trek. Step 1 was to make all the Exeter crewmen act like real competent professionals who didn't squabble and were all experts in their jobs. I aimed to make them smart, and that their actions drive the events of the plot. Step 2 was to not fall back on boilerplate action and things we've seen a hundred times before, or, when I pulled out a hoary cliche (say, a phaser on overload), I put a new spin on it which I hoped would have both surprised and delighted a hardcore fan but also made perfect logical sense in the story.

I also wrote a very experimental intercut interrogation sequence that might've been a little too experimental for some fans, but I loved it.

I love seeing the format stretched. I thought D.C. Fontana's "To Serve All My Days" was interesting because it took a page from Anton Chekhov's plays and worked that into the structure of the script. I don't think it entirely worked, but it was a real format stretcher and I applaud the effort, moreso than the by-the-numbers "World Enough And Time".
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Old April 15 2012, 08:22 AM   #23
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

Maurice wrote: View Post
I love seeing the format stretched. I thought D.C. Fontana's "To Serve All My Days" was interesting because it took a page from Anton Chekhov's plays and worked that into the structure of the script. I don't think it entirely worked, but it was a real format stretcher and I applaud the effort, moreso than the by-the-numbers "World Enough And Time".
Wow, you know, me too. I thought I'd chime in, because this is apparently a minority viewpoint. To me anyway, the thing that's the most impressive about "To Serve All My Days" is actually the thing that most fans, as I perceive them, probably hate about it, which is a surprising, dramatic, and ultimately logical and inevitable ending that is impossible to reconcile with canon. But it's this "What If?" angle that makes it worthwhile.
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Old April 18 2012, 02:57 AM   #24
Tribble Herder
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
2) You hold up Abrams as an example of how it "should be done"? Yes, by all means lets learn how to make better Star Trek media by copying Star Wars' style and tone...

You accuse fan films of being too insular and safe...as well as being the intellectual equivalent of "junk food"...so what does Abrams bring us? Kirk/Spock friendship trope. Spock struggles with his heritage trope. Revenge-driven villain trope. All dressed up in lens flares, lots of "run and jump" and "pew-pew-pew". Your example of how Trek films should be made is the perfect example of everything you claim to decry in fan-films...
JJTrek, the gift that keeps on giving...
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Old April 18 2012, 02:58 AM   #25
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

Tribble Herder wrote: View Post

JJTrek, the gift that keeps on giving...
Evidently so - it continues to make Paramount a great deal of money because most people who've seen it - including most previous Star Trek fans - like it so much.
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Old April 18 2012, 03:00 AM   #26
Tribble Herder
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

And will continue to spark gladiatorial combat in fandom until roughly ten minutes after the sun goes nova.
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Old April 18 2012, 03:04 AM   #27
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

No. A few folks complain loudly on the Internet. Most just buy tickets. Fandom as usual.
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Old April 18 2012, 03:05 AM   #28
Captain Atkin
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
There may be worthwhile criticisms of Abrams's movie out there somewhere, but they're not being posted by Trek fans on Trekbbs.
I saw that film 4 times at the show. It had it faults, but it was a lot of fun.
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Old April 18 2012, 03:33 AM   #29
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

That's about the best that can be said of any skiffy movie, isn't it?
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Old April 18 2012, 09:23 PM   #30
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Re: Fan Productions shut down by Rights Holders?

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
That's about the best that can be said of any skiffy movie, isn't it?
I finally got around to buying it out of a discount bin somewhere and found it fun, although Abrams' style is overly frenetic for me.(Hey I'm an old fart who wasn't raised on Mortal Kombat and other high intensity video games) Great film? No. Fun, worth what I paid for it? Sure. Actually I'm more interested in the sequel. Hopefully (for my enjoyment) he'll tone down the pacing just a touch...and maybe use a few less lens flares.

I can criticize and/or nitpick the film, but I enjoyed it overall. On my rating scale it was worth 3 out of 5 lens flares.
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