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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 23 2012, 01:03 AM   #61
The Wormhole
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
In a real sense, the rank pins used on the TWOK uniforms are no different than the rank pins used by the U.S. armed services in which you have to be familiar with what the individual insignias means. To someone not versed in them, they're just a bunch of meaningless pins too.
And that's the funny thing, I have the rank insignia for US military's officer ranks memorized, but the TWOK insignia has always given me trouble.
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Old April 23 2012, 10:14 AM   #62
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

Spike's Star Trek page shows the correct WOK insignia along with all the wrong insignia used by official magazines and books.
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Old April 23 2012, 03:51 PM   #63
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
In a real sense, the rank pins used on the TWOK uniforms are no different than the rank pins used by the U.S. armed services in which you have to be familiar with what the individual insignias means. To someone not versed in them, they're just a bunch of meaningless pins too.
And that's the funny thing, I have the rank insignia for US military's officer ranks memorized, but the TWOK insignia has always given me trouble.
Truthfully, as a kid, I memorized the TWOK insignia before I did the US military's, so I did it the reverse way.
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Old April 23 2012, 06:22 PM   #64
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
In a real sense, the rank pins used on the TWOK uniforms are no different than the rank pins used by the U.S. armed services in which you have to be familiar with what the individual insignias means. To someone not versed in them, they're just a bunch of meaningless pins too.
And that's the funny thing, I have the rank insignia for US military's officer ranks memorized, but the TWOK insignia has always given me trouble.
Truthfully, as a kid, I memorized the TWOK insignia before I did the US military's, so I did it the reverse way.
It's weird. I've been a Trek fan for nearly 20 years (and indeed it was that long ago when I first saw TWOK) and yet I've never been able to figure out their rank insignia. I had no familiarty with US military insignia until I started watching Stargate nearly 10 years ago, and I had that figured out after my first month of watching the show.
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Old April 23 2012, 06:34 PM   #65
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

Science Fiction-based rank devices, outside Trek TOS and, to some extent, TMP has always been too small and/or somewhat indistinguishable from one another.

The whole point of rank insignia (in the real world, anyway) is to easily differentiate who you need to salute to, or from whom you would expect a salute, from a good distance away. Fletcher's TWOK-era insignia does a serviceable job until you get to the flag officers, then it gets a little murky.

And don't even get me started on NuBSG. Not only are the devices virtually indistinguishable from one another at a distance, but the costuming department constantly screwed up what devices went with which grades.

Trek TNG tried to get back to a TOS-style rank system, but with pips instead of braids, which could also be somewhat difficult to see from a distance, especially if there was a blacked-out pip stuck in there somewhere. And I especially disliked how non-officers were handled in the TNG era. It wasn't until O'Brien became a regular higher-tier character in DS9 that a non-com grade finally got the respect of having its own device - a first, I think, since Kosinski's odd-looking device in "Where No One Has Gone Before".
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Old April 23 2012, 06:43 PM   #66
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
It's weird. I've been a Trek fan for nearly 20 years (and indeed it was that long ago when I first saw TWOK) and yet I've never been able to figure out their rank insignia. I had no familiarty with US military insignia until I started watching Stargate nearly 10 years ago, and I had that figured out after my first month of watching the show.
There's a little secret with the TWOK insignia--it's very loosely based upon the rank stripes used in TOS (the lieutenant insignia is generally one bar, the commander insignia has two bars across it, and the captain insignia has three bars across it).

Here's the website that ROBE mentioned earlier:
http://www.st-spike.org/pages/unifor...2350/ranks.htm
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Old April 23 2012, 07:16 PM   #67
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

I think a better Flag insignia would be:
Keep Commodore insignia with 2 gold "arrows"
Then:
Rear Admiral 3 gold "arrows"
Vice Admiral 4 gold "arrows"
Admiral 5 gold "arrows"
Fleet Admiral 6 "arrows"
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Old April 26 2012, 08:27 PM   #68
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

There is a logical reason why modern rank insignia is not clear from a distance in non dress uniforms.
SNIPERS!
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Old April 26 2012, 10:13 PM   #69
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

^^^ That's why they have subdued versions of the exact same rank devices, which are still easy to identify at eye-to-eye distance, but harder to see through a scope. And snipers have generally never been an issue on Trek or BSG.
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Old April 29 2012, 12:42 PM   #70
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

I just wish they had used TMP based rank insignia for the movie and bothered to have rating insignia.
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Old May 2 2012, 01:01 PM   #71
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Maybe if Uhura had a rank braid on her uniform, they wouldn't have called her "Cadet" and "lieutenant" in the same scene.

Honestly, I didn't notice the non-braid. Zoe Saldana was just too damned hot for me to care.
This wasn't a mistake. Uhura was a cadet with the rank of lieutenant - just as Kirk was said to be in TOS
No. According to TOS, Kirk-Prime was a lieutenant when he was an instructor at the Academy, not a cadet (or midshipman as they were called in TOS). Gary Mitchell was one of his students and described him as "a stack of books with legs," having been warned by upperclassmen that in Kirk's class one "either thinks or sinks."
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Old May 3 2012, 03:01 AM   #72
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

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PS McCoy in TOS often had a short sleaved uniform with no rank stripes.
I always assumed that his short-sleeved getup was the future's equivalent of medical scrubs.
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Old May 3 2012, 08:55 AM   #73
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

Shatner had an identical one in gold, made for the aborted Phase 2 television series. James Cawley bought the shirt at auction and wears it in his fan films.
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Old May 12 2012, 03:35 AM   #74
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

The Mighty Monkey of Mim wrote: View Post
No. According to TOS, Kirk-Prime was a lieutenant when he was an instructor at the Academy, not a cadet (or midshipman as they were called in TOS).
Even today, many university instructors and tutors of less-experienced students are also undertaking courses at the same university.

Just because Kirk was an instructor of Mitchell's doesn't mean he'd graduated from his own Starfleet courses. Indeed, teaching a class probably earns credits towards his own command/leadership course.

In the novelization of ST II, Lt Saavik had been tutoring Midshipman Peter Preston while still a cadet herself.
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Old May 12 2012, 09:19 AM   #75
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Re: What's with the Uniforms?

In the modern Royal Navy officer Cadets start of with the ranks of either midshipman or sub lieutenant depending on qualifications.
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