Mad Men, Season 5. General Discussion Thread (spoilers welcome)

[the G-man]

Dorian Thompson wrote:

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Oh, I by all means agree that she has deep seated issues predating Don. I was just saying that he really, really, REALLY didn't help matters. For someone with Betty's issues, Don was the least compatible type husband for her. ...

No doubt.

My take on Don and Betty was/is basically that each of them was attracted to the other for basically shallow and superficial reasons, complicated by their deep seated parent issues, since the beginning.

Don said Betty as the personification of the American dream he's spent his whole life trying to obtain, a real life June Cleaver who would be everything his mother and stepmother wouldn't. Betty saw Don as a handsome 'daddy' to give her an exciting life, trips to Italy, etc.

Unfortunately for each of them, they got something different. Don got a deeply disturbed woman with few maternal instincts. Betty got a closed off lothario who craved a boring family life.

I still think Don's a better person overall, simply because, as bad as he was to Betty, he can treat others, including his kids, with kindness. Conversely, Betty is terrible to everyone, including her kids. Furthermore, since many other women of the era were treated as bad, if not worse, than Betty I really can't excuse much of it on the times she was living in.

In fact, just look at the terrible stuff that Joan's gone through (alcoholic mother, a past abortion, an abusive husband, an unplanned pregnancy from Roger and constant sexism in the office) while still maintaining her dignity and kindness towards others.

gblews wrote:

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BTW, hiring Dawn as a secretary makes perfect sense and is entirely realistic considering the time in which this show is set. The only thing that mildly surprised me was that she ended up Don's secretary instead of Pete's. Pete has seemed to me to be the most socially progressive of the office execs

Don needed a secretary. Pete didn't. In addition, I have to wonder if Pryce might not have foisted her on Don to teach him a bit of a lesson for running that ad as a joke in the first place.

[Dorian Thompson]

Joan is strong. Betty, not so much.

[Lord Garth]

I like Michael Ginsberg and hope he sticks around for a while. I also hope they don't overdo his character or it's going to get old fast.

Joyce would fit in at one of Megan's parties even though Megan thinks she's pretentious. I wonder if she'll show up this season.

Lord Garth wrote:

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I bet Joan wanted to give Don another secretary he wouldn't hit on. It was either that or keep Caroline as Don's secretary and assign Dawn to Roger. Actually... maybe that's what should've happened.

I had an embarrassing lapse. I forgot about Joan still being on maternity leave.

[Rowan Sjet]

Mild spoilers for middle of Walking Dead S2, but oh God so good!

[gblews]

Rowan Sjet wrote:

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Mild spoilers for middle of Walking Dead S2, but oh God so good!

OMG! Absolutely hysterical.

[Dorian Thompson]

Carl's missing. Where's our little boy?

You don't know what it's like to be alone!!!

I saw you three minutes ago...

Carl, your mom's a whore....

Betty I can muster some sympathy for, but Lori Grimes shall forever be fair game. Talk about a bad wife.

Joan ever so calm and collected....shooting the zombies at the office. BWA HA HA HA HA!!! Priceless.

[Dorian Thompson]

Well that was a striking, bizarre episode of our favorite show. I knew Don had to be dreaming, but cheating is obviously still very much on his mind. Like Megan said herself, that kind of appetite, you can't blame that all on Betty. Don was a serial philanderer and his issues with women aren't over. They still lurk beneath the surface. He's going to find a way to fuck things up with Megan, whom I feel sorry for in a big way because she obviously loves him. He can't function in top form as Don Draper the shark if he's domestically content...and he's threatened in a big way by Chaci, aka Ginsburg.

The whole bit with Peggy and Sally and Henry's odd, bizarre, knife holding seconal dispensing to children mother and Sally being afraid of the Chicago killer--I don't quite know how to process that. Her daddy just kicked her out of the blue one day and told her she'd never know what to expect? No wonder Henry loves Betty. He was raised by the same pathology. Poor Sally. She doesn't have a prayer.

Was Peggy afraid Dawn was going to steal from her purse or something? She's going to get screwed over because of this presentation she's doing for Roger. I just know it.

[Dorian Thompson]

Guess I was the only one who watched the episode Sunday. What a shame. It was pretty damn good.

[Donald Draper]

Oh, I certainly did and always do. This one really blew me away. It was fantastic.

I thought the dream was real at first. I have read a couple different views on what parts were the dream and what was real. Personally I don't think that woman ever came to the apartment. Its a sign that running into her on the elevator shows he is haunted by his past. Which is the core of the character.

[Harvey]

AV Club didn't care for it, but I really liked it. I'm surprised how far they took Don's hallucinations. I kept writing them off as unreal, but they kept reappearing...and then finally they did turn out to be unreal after all. I'm glad Joni kicked her husband to the curb; that was a long time coming.

[Donald Draper]

I am glad Joan dumped her husband. The alternative would have been for him to die in Vietnam. But then she would have just been a grieving widow and not taking control and getting rid of this loser.

[Harvey]

I wonder if the character will actually go away at this point, or reappear to cause further trouble for Joan and her child down the line. (Or maybe just get killed off-screen.)

[Dorian Thompson]

I guess she's going to tell him that the baby isn't his and not collect child support? I realize he's a cretin, but collecting child support under false pretenses is still very, very wrong.

[Agent Richard07]

I didn't "get" Joan's husband or why he wanted to run off again.

Donald Draper wrote:

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I thought the dream was real at first.

So did I. I thought... Whoa! How will Don cover this up?

[Harvey]

Dorian Thompson wrote:

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I guess she's going to tell him that the baby isn't his and not collect child support? I realize he's a cretin, but collecting child support under false pretenses is still very, very wrong.

Has it been confirmed that the child isn't his? I know the possibility has been suggested, of course, but I can't remember if it was ever confirmed if Joan went ahead with the abortion or not.