The Action Figure and Toy Collecting and Discussion Thread!

[cooleddie74]

That toy was clearly made by the Prime Minister of Malaysia.

[C.E. Evans]

cooleddie74 wrote:

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If Kenner and then Hasbro didn't have jealous possession of the Star Wars toy license you just know there'd have been a slew of SW Barbies by now. We came awfully close with a few of the original 12" dolls from the end of the seventies. There was even a Princess Leia with change of clothes and a brush for her hair.

There's really nothing preventing Mattel from doing Star Wars Barbies other than a lack of interest on Mattel's part. Hasbro's license to make Star Wars toys isn't exclusive (Sideshow, Hot Toys, Medicom, also have the license to make Star Wars toys). Aside from an Episode VI Han Solo in Endor gear, Medicom makes a 12-inch Episode IV Luke Skywalker with a light-up lightsaber.
http://www.toyark.com/news/attach/1/...1292508878.jpg

[cooleddie74]

Well, I meant toys as in the things most people consider "toys." Sideshow, Medicom, Gentle Giant and other companies certainly do possess the rights to make SW product and produce stunning pieces of work, but those are more along the lines of adult collectibles and statues than they are "toys."

And maybe you're right, perhaps Mattel could do so if they wanted. All I know is what people on the collecting sites and boards talk about and tell me, and for years now the general impression a lot of us come away with is that Hasbro has the license until at least 2017 and that they jealously guard it like Fort Knox. In fact, when the plans for a new line of 12" SW figures were announced at Comic-Con a week or two ago interviewers on the convention floor actually asked, "So does this mean Hasbro will be pulling the rights of Sideshow and other companies to make 12" scale characters and preventing them from doing so?"
The Hasbro Convention reps replied: "No, we're not going to take steps to revoke their licenses. They can still continue to produce their own 12" scale products."

That's almost verbatim. So you can see where a lot of the confusion in the collecting community might come from given Hasbro's own statements about pulling other companies' licenses to make things.

[OdoWanKenobi]

I know I've said this before, but as bad as Hasbro is, NOBODY want Mattel to take the Star Wars license from them. Luke, Han, Vader, Obi-Wan, and Anakin will be the only characters allowed at retail. The rest will be exclusives to MattyCollector (even Leia and Padme. Women don't sell according to Matty,), where you'll have to buy a subscription or risk dealing with their horrible site for day of sales. Also, you see the Green Lantern or Dark Knight Rises 4" figures with the mediocre sculpts and 5 points of articulation? Yeah, that's what you could expect from a Mattel Star Wars line.

[Hound of UIster]

A very simple comparison:

Shit > Hasbro >>>>>> Mattel

[cooleddie74]

Oh, Mattel's STAR WARS figures would be horrible. Absolute crap. When the Hasbro license comes up in 2017 I hope that, if Hasbro doesn't renew it and continue making Lucas toys themselves, a really top-notch toy company with great sculpting and tooling talent takes over. Even if they charge more for figures and other paraphernalia because of higher quality it'd still be a far preferable scenario to the crap factory over at Mattel taking on the franchise and giving collectors an abysmal selection and variety to choose from as well as seriously bad quality.

OdoWan's right. I've seen some of the recent Mattel action figures. A Pet Rock looks better than some of that stuff.

[OdoWanKenobi]

Mattel has been moving away from collectors at an astonishing rate. The MattyCollector lines are all in grave danger of not happening at all. Those lines include DC Universe, Masters of the Universe, and their newly announced Watchmen line. Those and Movie Masters are really the only collector based lines they have left. Seriously, do you love DC Comics? Masters of the Universe? Then I implore you to go to MattyCollector and buy a subscription to next year's club. They're basically holding the lines hostage unless we get enough people subscribed before August 6th. If we don't, then the lines are dead. They've already shown off a bunch of fan demanded characters for the DC line next year like Wally West, Phantom Stranger, Elongated Man, Saint Walker, and Larfleeze.

[C.E. Evans]

cooleddie74 wrote:

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Well, I meant toys as in the things most people consider "toys." Sideshow, Medicom, Gentle Giant and other companies certainly do possess the rights to make SW product and produce stunning pieces of work, but those are more along the lines of adult collectibles and statues than they are "toys."

The definition becomes negligble with certain products as those non-Hasbro companies often produce figures with multiple points of articulation and accessories. In that sense, the biggest difference is really just the size and price range from Hasbro's 3.75-inch line.

And maybe you're right, perhaps Mattel could do so if they wanted. All I know is what people on the collecting sites and boards talk about and tell me, and for years now the general impression a lot of us come away with is that Hasbro has the license until at least 2017 and that they jealously guard it like Fort Knox. In fact, when the plans for a new line of 12" SW figures were announced at Comic-Con a week or two ago interviewers on the convention floor actually asked, "So does this mean Hasbro will be pulling the rights of Sideshow and other companies to make 12" scale characters and preventing them from doing so?"
The Hasbro Convention reps replied: "No, we're not going to take steps to revoke their licenses. They can still continue to produce their own 12" scale products."

That's almost verbatim. So you can see where a lot of the confusion in the collecting community might come from given Hasbro's own statements about pulling other companies' licenses to make things.

Hasbro is the master toy licensee for the Star Wars line, but they opted not to be exclusive with it. Other companies like Sideshow were able to get their own licenses to produce Star Wars toys from Hasbro.

Hasbro had no interest in doing 12-inch Star Wars figures anymore, but other toy companies did.

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, I did a little more asking around after I posted that the other day and basically found out the same thing you just said. They're the "master licensee," so to speak. Which makes everything else I've seen, read and heard make perfect sense and fall into place. Thanks, man.

I have to wonder about the new 12" Hasbro line coming out next year. It's been seven years since the last 12" SW figures were in retail stores and a whole lot of people have moved on and gotten past them as companies like Sideshow and Gentle Giant have produced statues of the same scale or even bigger that basically blow the old 12" sculpts off the face of the planet.

Add to that the fact that they're going to be much more kid-oriented, have only five points of articulation and have their weapons molded to their hands and I just don't know if the company's going to get anywhere with them. Some kids might bite since the $14.99 pricepoint will be very attractive for parents who want as much bang for their buck as possible when it comes to the size of a toy, but teenagers and grown adults are what drive the Hasbro SW line and keep it afloat and without enough support from those sales demographics I don't know if a new 12" line will last very long.

[C.E. Evans]

cooleddie74 wrote:

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Yeah, I did a little more asking around after I posted that the other day and basically found out the same thing you just said. They're the "master licensee," so to speak. Which makes everything else I've seen, read and heard make perfect sense and fall into place. Thanks, man.

I have to wonder about the new 12" Hasbro line coming out next year. It's been seven years since the last 12" SW figures were in retail stores and a whole lot of people have moved on and gotten past them as companies like Sideshow and Gentle Giant have produced statues of the same scale or even bigger that basically blow the old 12" sculpts off the face of the planet.

Add to that the fact that they're going to be much more kid-oriented, have only five points of articulation and have their weapons molded to their hands and I just don't know if the company's going to get anywhere with them. Some kids might bite since the $14.99 pricepoint will be very attractive for parents who want as much bang for their buck as possible when it comes to the size of a toy, but teenagers and grown adults are what drive the Hasbro SW line and keep it afloat and without enough support from those sales demographics I don't know if a new 12" line will last very long.

In a real sense, that's the problem that toy companies have been facing for awhile, especially those producing action figures. Their customer base has been getting older and getting smaller. There are numerous reasons for this, but like comic books, action figures have become steadily a luxury item catering to a steadily aging and shrinking crowd. Trying to re-target kids with less expensive toys might work for Hasbro, but it also might be too little, too late.

[OdoWanKenobi]

cooleddie74 wrote:

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I have to wonder about the new 12" Hasbro line coming out next year. It's been seven years since the last 12" SW figures were in retail stores and a whole lot of people have moved on and gotten past them as companies like Sideshow and Gentle Giant have produced statues of the same scale or even bigger that basically blow the old 12" sculpts off the face of the planet.

Sideshow's 12 inch figures are fully articulated figures, not statues. They do have a statue line as well, but it's in a different scale.

Retargeting towards kids doesn't seem to work either, though. What flies off of the shelves? The collector oriented figures. Stores can't keep enough of them in stock. Collectors can't find them anywhere because it's snooze you lose on them. What sits and warms the pegs forever? The crummy kid oriented figures. You will STILL find Iron Man 2 figures on store shelves. Not the ones the collectors want, just endless pegs full of the Mark VI. The Batman figures for kids are not selling. They're just taking up shelf space. The Movie Masters, the collectors line, those are selling.

I think the problem is that collectors are so god damn fickle. I can't believe some of the ridiculous arguments I've heard from DC collectors. I've seriously heard someone say that they don't care if Matty is giving us Elongated Man, Wally, Saint Walker, and Larfleeze (all of which are massively fan demanded characters) since they haven't given us Doomsday or Granny Goodness yet. Seriously, they're saying that they will refuse to buy these figures that they want, (and that we all want) because we haven't yet been given these two figures that they want more.

[C.E. Evans]

OdoWanKenobi wrote:

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Retargeting towards kids doesn't seem to work either, though. What flies off of the shelves? The collector oriented figures.

I've seen the total opposite. It's the more obscure characters that most people have never heard of (or barely remember seeing onscreen) that sit on the shelves. The more well-known characters tend to be the ones that really sell. Two or three Darth Vaders will always sell, while a Quinlan Vos will become a dust magnet. Jocasta Nu might be sought after heavily by collectors, but retailers would rather have a few more Luke Skywalkers and Han Solos instead.

Stores can't keep enough of them in stock.

A lot of that have to do with them simply being short-packed (usually only 1 to a case). In those instances, it's frequently first come, first served (and hope that there isn't someone who works at the store who gets at 'em first).

[cooleddie74]

I've heard lots of rumors that the reason so few people ever found the highly sought-after Jaina and Jacen Solo figures from the tail end of the old Legacy Collection is precisely because their wave was a Toys 'R' Us exclusive and store employees bagged most of them before they ever even hit the pegs of the Star Wars aisle. That very last wave of Legacy also contained the Whiphid Jedi Knight K'Kruhk and the Phase I Dark Trooper, also highly prized figures that command a very hefty premium over on eBay.

[C.E. Evans]

cooleddie74 wrote:

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I've heard lots of rumors that the reason so few people ever found the highly sought-after Jaina and Jacen Solo figures from the tail end of the old Legacy Collection is precisely because their wave was a Toys 'R' Us exclusive and store employees bagged most of them before they ever even hit the pegs of the Star Wars aisle.

Yes, I've heard that too. And with most TRU stores only carrying a very small number of them anyway (1 or 2 of each tops), the majority of people who wanted those figures were simply out of luck from the get-go.

That very last wave of Legacy also contained the Whiphid Jedi Knight K'Kruhk and the Phase I Dark Trooper, also highly prized figures that command a very hefty premium over on eBay.

It's increasingly becoming the norm for most collectors. Getting stuff at retail is more a matter of luck these days. I still have yet to see another 3.75-inch Black Widow figure from the Avengers movie in stores yet (I got mine only by being in the wrong store at the right time).

[cooleddie74]

^
Terrific points there.

On a slightly related note, I just ordered the six new figures in the Jar Jar/Bespin Leia wave of Vintage on the actual black and silver Vintage Collection cardbacks. I already have them on the limited edition, variant "Lost Line" cards made available in the SDCC Carbonite Chamber set, but the regular Vintage design's cooler and I wanted to have both packaging designs.

Besides...with current distribution and restocking I might not even find some or even any of these in stores. Best just to pay a few bucks more for each figure to make sure I get them. By the time you factor in all the gas you waste driving all over town fifty or sixty times to look for the figures you could have just bought them off of eBay for inflated prices and still saved a few bucks.

The Vintage Collection Bespin Leia cardfront is just plain gorgeous and so evocative of my early childhood.



Ah, the early eighties. When toy companies actually took the time to make their packaging classy and stylish. An elegant action figure package...for a more civilized age.