MLB Discussion - 2012 Season

[Danny99]

Just finished watching the highlights of Farrell's Boston introduction and it just pushed the knife in a little deeper. His years in Toronto were "invaluable experience." We were used so he could eventually run back to Boston with "experience."

I don't blame the GM for not holding onto him. He'd play out another subpar year and end his contract and then coming running back to the Red Sox.

Don't worry Boston, you won't be as bad as last year. A .500 team is better than what you had last year right? Oh and don't worry, you'll be a .500 team until your love affair with Farrell wears off.

[Tom Servo]

Danny99 wrote:

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Just finished watching the highlights of Farrell's Boston introduction and it just pushed the knife in a little deeper. His years in Toronto were "invaluable experience." We were used so he could eventually run back to Boston with "experience."

I don't blame the GM for not holding onto him. He'd play out another subpar year and end his contract and then coming running back to the Red Sox.

Don't worry Boston, you won't be as bad as last year. A .500 team is better than what you had last year right? Oh and don't worry, you'll be a .500 team until your love affair with Farrell wears off.

Bitter much? I don't blame you, but if he wasn't that good, according to you, shouldn't you be happy?

I'm not saying Farrell will be great, or even good, but he's on track with management, and they are on track with him. For the first time since Sept of 2011, the whole team is on one track. Cherington has the manager he wants, and a roster with a MASSIVE amount of financial flexibility.

They won't win the division next year, but they'll be above .500, depending on the moves they make this offseason.

[Timby]

Tom Servo wrote:

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Cherington has the manager he wants, and a roster with a MASSIVE amount of financial flexibility.

Just in time for the worst free-agent market in years.

[Skywalker]

Spending lavishly on big-name free agents is what got the team into trouble in the first place. I'm cool with them just picking up some supplemental pieces and riding out next season while they wait for some of their prospects to develop.

[Tom Servo]

Timby wrote:

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Just in time for the worst free-agent market in years.

True, and I hope they don't blow this new found flexibility on Hamilton or Grienke.

The guy inherited a roster that while talented, wasn't working, due to injuries, regression, what have you, and had NO flexibility, if they are trying to stay under the luxury tax. He got out from all of it in the Dodgers trade, and even got two good pitching prospects back.

You keep acting like Cherington has acted like a moron for his first year as GM. Yes Melancon did not work out, but the thought behind the trade wasn't bad. Lowrie was a constantly hurt but talented hitter, and Weiland wasn't anything special. Similar with the Bailey deal. I liked Reddick, and thought he was a good player, but no one saw the kind of year he had Oakland coming. And Bailey got hurt, which was a concern when we traded for him, but shit happens. I won't say that Cherington has been great but he hasn't been the moron you keep saying his is. If he was doing what Reuben Amaro was doing by just adding more and more payroll to fix the problem, I'd agree, but he didn't.

We haven't gotten to see what kind of team he would build because he was so stuck with the contracts Theo left when he high tailed to Chicago. He was forced to work within the confines he was allowed. Now however, its all on him. He has everything lined up how he wanted it, with an open checkbook. If he screws up now, he has no one else to blame, but lets see if he does.

The 2013 Red Sox will not be build in FA, cause as stated, it sucks. I could see them chasing one of the other starters on the market, such as a Haren on a short term, high money deal. I feel they're going to rebuild using trades, and wait for it...waiting for some of their younger players do develop. For the first time in a few years, there is a group of guys developing who could be next wave or prospects to make a major impact, like Papelbon, Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia and Ellsbury did between 2004-07.

This team is in a much better position now, then it was the day before the Dodgers trade.

[Timby]

Tom Servo wrote:

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]
True, and I hope they don't blow this new found flexibility on Hamilton or Grienke.

I will be stunned if they don't make a serious run at Hamilton. (Assuming, of course, that I'm wrong about Henry & Co. getting ready to cash out, and I'm not sure that I am.)

You keep acting like Cherington has acted like a moron for his first year as GM.

He traded a guy who, despite not being very good, could have brought back actual baseball players, instead of a guy who doesn't actually play the game. Beyond that, he traded for a manager who seemed to make a number of weird but subtle choices with the Toronto media that caused at least some unnecessary seething inside the organization, and also seemed to have an equally awkward relationship with both young players and veterans, and his strategic choices were somewhere between below average and average.

I mean, I can only think of a few things that would be more humiliating to be traded for than a manager:

1. A box of baseballs
2. A beer vendor with a signature call
3. A treasure map with a rhyming scheme
4. Barbecue sunflower seeds
5. A Zamboni
6. Yuniesky Betancourt

And even that Zamboni might have more value if the owner happens to hold a hockey team as well as a baseball team.

The Youkilis trade was beyond stupid, and I already mentioned how silly it is to be putting all their eggs in the Jose Iglesias basket; he's going to need to luck out into becoming a BABIP god to be of any value at the plate.

We haven't gotten to see what kind of team he would build because he was so stuck with the contracts Theo left when he high tailed to Chicago. He was forced to work within the confines he was allowed. Now however, its all on him. He has everything lined up how he wanted it, with an open checkbook. If he screws up now, he has no one else to blame, but lets see if he does.

The only genuinely bad contract that Cherington dealt with was Crawford's, and that deal was Henry's all the way. Adrian Gonzalez is still a world-class talent, and the only reason his contract was dumped was because that was the price the Dodgers demanded in exchange for taking on the mammoth contract of a guy who may already be done (and even that is hilarious, because the Dodgers' owners came out after the trade and said that they don't care about how much money they spend).

The 2013 Red Sox will not be build in FA, cause as stated, it sucks. I could see them chasing one of the other starters on the market, such as a Haren on a short term, high money deal. I feel they're going to rebuild using trades, and wait for it...waiting for some of their younger players do develop. For the first time in a few years, there is a group of guys developing who could be next wave or prospects to make a major impact, like Papelbon, Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia and Ellsbury did between 2004-07.

If they were genuinely intending to rebuild, they'd be trading guys like Lester and Pedroia, instead of trading for a manager who will appease them.

[Ar-Pharazon]

And in a surprising move, the Marlins fire Ozzie Guillen.

Actually, the surprising part is they waited this long.

[Use of Time]

I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that Barry Zito is a game 1 starter in a World Series...in the year 2012.

[Danny99]

Tom Servo wrote:

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Bitter much? I don't blame you, but if he wasn't that good, according to you, shouldn't you be happy?

I'm not saying Farrell will be great, or even good, but he's on track with management, and they are on track with him. For the first time since Sept of 2011, the whole team is on one track. Cherington has the manager he wants, and a roster with a MASSIVE amount of financial flexibility.

They won't win the division next year, but they'll be above .500, depending on the moves they make this offseason.

I am happy he's gone really. Even up until the Escobar incident, I was of the thinking of maybe he could still take the steps forward needed for this team. But then one of his players walks out with a gay slur written in his eye black. Sure, Farrell doesn't speak Spanish, but he doesn't ask what it says and the Spanish players don't raise an uproar? And then when it is discovered, Farrell treats it like Escobar double parked out front of the Rogers Centre. Now I'm not a crusader of gay rights, but in a city that had such a large gay community and an annual gay pride parade and that was his reaction, especially when the city's reaction was so intense? That started to raise some questions for me.

The only way this team (Toronto) will grow is if there is a teaching manager brought in, but one that will not put up with the silliness and lack of discipline that we saw in the Farrell era.

Farrell is not the anointed savior Boston is making him out to be. From what we saw, he was a sub-par manager. The city was shocked was Francona lost control of the clubhouse before he was fired? And the reaction when Valentine tried to instill some discipline? Farrell is part of the old Boston boys club. Of course the players left over are happy to see him, it means they have the run of the clubhouse again. I would hope most free agents realize that this team is poison and stay away from it.

[Tom Servo]

Danny99 wrote:

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I am happy he's gone really. Even up until the Escobar incident, I was of the thinking of maybe he could still take the steps forward needed for this team. But then one of his players walks out with a gay slur written in his eye black. Sure, Farrell doesn't speak Spanish, but he doesn't ask what it says and the Spanish players don't raise an uproar? And then when it is discovered, Farrell treats it like Escobar double parked out front of the Rogers Centre. Now I'm not a crusader of gay rights, but in a city that had such a large gay community and an annual gay pride parade and that was his reaction, especially when the city's reaction was so intense? That started to raise some questions for me.

The only way this team (Toronto) will grow is if there is a teaching manager brought in, but one that will not put up with the silliness and lack of discipline that we saw in the Farrell era.

Farrell is not the anointed savior Boston is making him out to be. From what we saw, he was a sub-par manager. The city was shocked was Francona lost control of the clubhouse before he was fired? And the reaction when Valentine tried to instill some discipline? Farrell is part of the old Boston boys club. Of course the players left over are happy to see him, it means they have the run of the clubhouse again. I would hope most free agents realize that this team is poison and stay away from it.

Im sure you'd love to think that FA will stay away, would help Toronto a lot wouldn't it? Doesn't work like that. It's about the money, and they have a lot of it.

We'll see with Farrell. Just because he didn't work out in Toronto, doesn't mean he'll be bad in Boston, and if he can fix Lester and Bard while he's here, then it's worth it.

[RevDMV]

Use of Time wrote:

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I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that Barry Zito is a game 1 starter in a World Series...in the year 2012.

Look at it this way, the way things have been going this post season, it's either a blow out or he pitches a no-hitter

[Skywalker]

Valentine is a disciplinarian? Okay.

He never tried to instill discipline. Calling players out publicly and trying to turn everyone against one another is not discipline. The players didn't rally behind Valentine because he's not a leader. He's a narcissistic blowhard who thinks he knows better than everyone else. He's not interested in anything that doesn't make him look good. I had low expectations for him when he was hired, but he turned out to be even worse than I thought.

I think it's telling that John Henry and Larry Lucchino were out there, front and center, during Valentine's press conference when he was announced as manager, but during Farrell's press conference neither of them were anywhere to be seen until Lucchino came out to answer a few questions after the press conference had ended. Hopefully they've realized that the guy they wanted (Valentine) didn't work so well and will back off a bit this year and let Cherington do his job properly.

[Timby]

Jar Jar Binks wrote:

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V
I think it's telling that John Henry and Larry Lucchino were out there, front and center, during Valentine's press conference when he was announced as manager, but during Farrell's press conference neither of them were anywhere to be seen until Lucchino came out to answer a few questions after the press conference had ended.

The Red Sox didn't need to do their traditional "mother of all smear jobs on a person leaving the organization" this time -- Bobby V did it to himself.

[SmoothieX]

This World Series is boring as anything so far.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I think Tim McCarver hit a new low tonight. After the crowd had been chanting "Barry...Barry..." (as in, Zito, and everyone knew this), guess who ol' Tim suggested it was? Manilow.

Even Joe Buck was floored...