General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

[Admiral_Young]

I might be the only one here who wants to see another Randy Orton World Title run

[Mr Silver]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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I might be the only one here who wants to see another Randy Orton World Title run

I'd take that over Sheamus.

I can't believe that WWE has discussed elevating Sheamus to the "top guy" position, once John Cena calls it a day. Even though I may frequently criticise Cena, nobody can deny he has a natural aptitude for entertainment. There is absolutely no way that Sheamus, could even come close to cutting the kind of promos that Cena has cut in feuds with the likes of, The Rock, Edge and CM Punk.

Don't get me wrong, Sheamus is a considerably better wrestler than John Cena, especially when it comes to consistency with selling. But that's just not enough to justify being in the top spot.

[Ghost Bones]

Mr Silver wrote:

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Don't get me wrong, Sheamus is a considerably better wrestler than John Cena, especially when it comes to consistency with selling. But that's just not enough to justify being in the top spot.

Oh God, he really isn't. He's a low-selling, paceless, one-move-of-doom embarrassment to the form. Seems to exist just to remind that it could be worse than Cena.

[Satyrquaze]

^ He's also living proof that it's rarely what you know as a performer that gets you a push, it's who you know.

[Mr Silver]

Ghost Bones wrote:

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Oh God, he really isn't. He's a low-selling, paceless, one-move-of-doom embarrassment to the form. Seems to exist just to remind that it could be worse than Cena.

I'll agree with you that this is how it's essentially been in the last few months. However, Sheamus has shown that he's not completely paceless and devoid of talent.

Compared to Cena, Sheamus hasn't quite crapped on the art of wrestling, but he could go there if he continues to wrestle quickfire, unenthusiastic, and TV style matches.

John Cena hasn't made any effort to improve as an in-ring performer, since his promotion to the main event in 04/05. In the first few months of his first reign as WWE Champion, Cena received criticism due to his terrible punches. From 07-09, he was carried through choice encounters by Edge, RVD, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Batista, Chris Jericho and Randy Orton. It wasn't until 08/09, that we got to see how poor Cena really could be in the ring.

In the last couple of years, Cena has completely toned back on his moveset (which wasn't particularly that extensive, to begin with). His matches consist of the same routines, with very little deviation from the norm, or innovation. He relies on minimal offence, strung together with non-consistent selling (ie, if the heel spends the entire match working on a limb of a face, then the face should continue to sell the effects of that, even during their atypical babyface comeback and the conclusion of the match - Cena either doesn't or does with diminished enthusiasm, along with the "injuries" not impacting upon him executing certain moves) and superhuman comebacks (check out the finish of the Nexus Summerslam match in 2010 and the match against Miz at Over The Limit 2011).

When pushed, against a superior opponent such as CM Punk, Shawn Michaels or Edge, Cena will pull out unfamiliar holds (to him) such as the abdominal stretch, armbars, the crossface, armdrags, dropkicks and the odd aerial move. The trouble is, Cena is clearly out of his comfort zone when trying to wrestle like this, and is prone to make small, but noticeable cock ups. His dropkicks, in particular, are sloppily executed, due to his sheer muscle mass.

The biggest thing by far, is his inability to properly apply an STF. He has surely got to be aware of how sloppily he applies it, and the fact that there is such a noticeable gap between the opponents head and his "locked" arms, that there is no way in hell that he could be perceived as applying any kind of real pressure. Lou Thesz must be spinning in his grave!

Scaryquaze wrote:

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^ He's also living proof that it's rarely what you know as a performer that gets you a push, it's who you know.

Very true, although I doubt it's all down to Sheamus being gym buddies with Triple H. Vince has always shown fondness for Irish stuff (Vince's ancestary is Irish), particularly with Irish names (Hogan was McMahon's idea, attributed to his Irish affinity). I can imagine Vince feeling like he'd hit the jackpot when a tall, large framed, bona fide Irish man came looking for a job.

[Satyrquaze]

^ I sincerely hope that Sheamus is not solely being pushed as hard and as fast as he is because:

1) He's buddy-buddy with Triple H.
2) He's big and Irish and Vince loves that about him.

So, setting size aside, Fit Finlay only needed to brown-nose to Trips a few times to be remembered as the multi-time World Champion?

Drew McIntyre was just born on the wrong side of the Irish Sea? Does Vince comparatively hate the Scottish?

[Mr Silver]

Scaryquaze wrote:

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So, setting size aside, Fit Finlay only needed to brown-nose to Trips a few times to be remembered as the multi-time World Champion?

Nah, Finlay was too old and made a name for himself in WCW. The brown-nosing will only get a person so far if they made a name for themselves outside of the WWE. Finlay did surprisingly well for himself, despite debuting for WWE in his late 40's. He held the United States Championship, had some choice feuds, and spent a good deal of time in the upper mid card.

Drew McIntyre was just born on the wrong side of the Irish Sea? Does Vince comparatively hate the Scottish?

Actually, Vince would not have endorsed McIntyre as a "future WWE Champion", had he not intended to push him. In McIntyre's case, his marital problems and bad attitude, cost him that main event push. Still, its not to late, after all, Sheamus floundered for almost a year, following his initial mega push.

[Icemizer]

Vince pushing Sheamus is a lot like Vince pushing Luger. Big guys with no moves, no vocal talent and no charisma, no matter how many times we are told differently. Right now I just dont see the guy in the WWE who can carry the ball once Cena is moved down. WWE had done a poor job getting us to care about the mid carders who might have moved up. Miz, Ziggler, Barrett, Orton, none of them will put huge numbers in the seats on name alone. Its going to be a dreary few years until someone sticks his head up and stands out.

[Admiral_Young]

Just saw an interesting interview that Jim Ross conducted with CM Punk and Stone Cold promoting WWE'13. There was a lot of tension in the video and they were talking about what if's. To me they were clearly teasing a possible match in the future. I don't know how likely this is or if Steve would be physically up to (although he sure as hell damned portrayed himself like he was up for it) a match like that. Just something interesting to keep an eye out for possibly Wrestlemania 30 perhaps? It had more tension than Cena/Rock did IMO. I'll see if I can find it and post it.

[Mr Silver]

Vince McMahon is going to be returning to Raw on Monday. This follows the abysmal ratings in recent weeks (everytime they dip, Vince makes a return). Furthermore, there has been talk of John Cena making an appearance too.

WWE is in denial if they think that the low ratings have to do with the absence of John Cena. The low ratings are down to the lack of stars, the creative team's inability to focus on more than a couple of performers at any one time, and the lack of any intriguing storylines.

[Ghost Bones]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-30-oct-6-2012

First one as featured columnist.

[Admiral_Young]

Cena has said he will be appearing tomorrow night in spite of doctor's orders. Also isn't Vince's appearance going to entail a "state of WWE" speech?

[Ghost Bones]

Presumably he won't just say "It's fucking shit and Sheamus is ruining everything". They'll probably just use it as part of the AJ storyline or something.

[indianatrekker26]

Mr Silver wrote:

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Vince McMahon is going to be returning to Raw on Monday. This follows the abysmal ratings in recent weeks (everytime they dip, Vince makes a return). Furthermore, there has been talk of John Cena making an appearance too.

WWE is in denial if they think that the low ratings have to do with the absence of John Cena. The low ratings are down to the lack of stars, the creative team's inability to focus on more than a couple of performers at any one time, and the lack of any intriguing storylines.

I haven't watched Raw in probably almost a month. This has me intrigued enough to tune in at 8pm. But i have a feeling it will just lead to Vince booking some kinda tag match. And then dropping off tv again.

[Mr Silver]

indianatrekker26 wrote:

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But i have a feeling it will just lead to Vince booking some kinda tag match. And then dropping off tv again.

CM Punk and Alberto Del Rio vs Ryback and Sheamus - or something yawn inducing, to that effect.

See if I were in Vinnie Mac's shoes, I'd want to implement a gamechanger or two. Let's assume that John Cena should be able to compete at HIAC, but they are going to run with the backup plan. So tonight, Cena comes out and delivers one of his usual promos, stating that his recovery is taking longer than he expected and therefore, he won't be able to compete at HIAC. Punk comes out, cuts one of his promos on Cena, until Vince McMahon interrupts.

Vince comes out and talks about the history and the proud tradition of the WWE Championship before mentioning something about making a few changes. Vince signals to the back and out comes a couple of suits carrying a briefcase. Inside that briefcase is the new title belt which Vince reveals to everybody and then presents to CM Punk. It's a very pompous affair, in which the crowd will no doubt boo. Vince will then say:

"...However, since John Cena is unable to compete at Hell In A Cell, I've taken the liberty in selecting a new opponent for CM Punk".

At which point, the new opponent (use your imagination, could be Ryback, Ziggler, Vince McMahon himself, or even Undertaker) comes out and hits the ring. Cena walks out, not to be seen until after the conclusion of HIAC...Or so we think.

At HIAC, the new opponent seems to have Punk's number, until Punk takes control of the match through malicious means. Then the "big surprise" - Cena runs in to try and assist the new opponent, but the new opponent decks Cena for trying to interfere. Punk then slaps on the Anaconda Vice or hits the GTS (if it's Ziggler or Vinnie Mac), or gets a rollup (if it's Ryback or Undertaker) and takes the victory.

After the match, Cena tries to reason with the new opponent, but they are having none of it, so Cena decks him and then Punk, before taking the WWE Championship, and walking out of the arena (to a chorus of boos) to close the show.

From here on, they can run with a Cena heel turn, or abort it and justify his actions as a result of frustration for trying to do the right thing. He'll then redeem himself by beating Punk at Survivor Series for the WWE Championship. CM Punk will then regain the WWE Championship in the TLC rematch - just in time to face The Rock at Royal Rumble.