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Old July 25 2012, 12:07 PM   #376
Admiral_Young
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

John Cena, CM Punk, and Daniel Bryan are arguably the current faces of the WWE, with Punk and Cena vying each other for top star spot with Bryan behind them. Cena is basically the current "Hulk Hogan" right now for WWE. Cena even brought that up himself in that one great promo when Vince tried to fire him during the Punk saga. For whatever reason, John has been their safety net good or bad. I give them a ton of credit for riding Punk right now as WWE Champion. He's probably been the most over face champion the company has had in quite some time. I foresee this heel turn as probably the equivalent of one of Austin's heel turns, since we've compared Punk's anti-hero character to Austin before.

WWE has attempted to turn John heel several times and it's back fired in their faces because of the fandom's divisiveness over him. I mean they even used the Rock to try and do this and it didn't happen. It's a phenom that is quite hard to explain really.
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Old July 25 2012, 02:44 PM   #377
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
WWE has attempted to turn John heel several times and it's back fired in their faces because of the fandom's divisiveness over him. I mean they even used the Rock to try and do this and it didn't happen. It's a phenom that is quite hard to explain really.
No, they've never tried nor attempted to turn Cena heel. WWE is incredibly protective of Cena and his characterisation as a good guy and is constantly trying to encourage the fanbase to cheer for Cena rather than fully embracing the divisiveness (as you pointed out) and focusing on the opportunities that a unique character like that can provide.

WWE actually hates the constant divisiveness and resorts to pointless measures such as modifying the crowd reactions for Cena for pre-recorded broadcasts and promos. The commentators are sometimes forbidden from acknowledging the dominant negative reactions emanating from the audience and are sometimes even instructed to make shit up about what the audience are saying - eg, claiming that the crowd are cheering for Cena where they are clearly cheering for the other guy.

It's not about turning him heel at this juncture, it's about taking risks when writing for the character and allowing him to be more than just a one-dimensional good guy that always overcomes the odds and never grows as a character.

There are 3 reasons that pretty much rule out a John Cena heel turn at this stage:

1) His work with the Make-A-Wish foundation.
2) The merchandise opportunities that are dependent on his present characterisation - which makes WWE a hell of a lot of money.
3) The absence of anybody in the company who could succeed Cena in the above two roles, whilst he is portraying a heel character.

Last edited by Mr Silver; July 25 2012 at 09:24 PM.
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Old July 25 2012, 06:34 PM   #378
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

I respectfully disagree with you that they haven't attempted to turn John heel. We discussed already in the original thread how lame it was to use a returning Kane to do that with the whole embrace the hate program. I do agree with you that they've been overly protective of Cena and attempt to manipulate the crowds, which is never a good idea. I also agree with you that we're never going to get a heel turn due to the reasons you gave and a major repackaging of Cena is near impossible now. As for "taking risks" well...that rarely has happened with creative as of late. The Kane program was arguably a calculated risk and as you and others know, I was highly critical of that program as I believe it did absolutely NOTHING for either men and was pretty pointless.

Anyways. We have what we have in this current era of the WWE. It's not really going to change any soon. They've had opportunities in the past to grasp hold of fleeting moments of momentum but have always dropped the ball. I'm really concerned about the three hour format. I think this is going to back fire for them. As I've mentioned in the past they have been highly critical of WCW going three hours and in numerous of their round table discussions have pointed it out as a reason why they failed. I can't see WWE doing it better. They could barely program 2 hours IHMO. We'll see though how this goes.
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Old July 28 2012, 07:13 PM   #379
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

This is actually pretty awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ii2g...layer_embedded
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Old July 29 2012, 09:23 PM   #380
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Earl Hebner has dug a hole and buried himself in it.

An interesting read regarding where the McMahon-Limo explosion storyline was going.

Kevin Nash is also teasing things on Twitter such as reforming the NWO with CM Punk as leader. I think this is Nash's way of telling us that he wants one more run and that he wants to/thinks he deserves to work with the hottest star in American professional wrestling.
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Old July 29 2012, 09:34 PM   #381
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Yeah I read the thing on the Limo plans about a month ago I think. Rather interesting, and not surprising that Vince ignores inconsistencies. Pretty much have come to understand that over the years.

Nash has been saying he wants one more match for quite some time now (I mentioned this after his first tweet about wanting to come back) and has put over Punk on Twitter several times. Nothing new.

The Hebner thing is
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Old July 29 2012, 09:41 PM   #382
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Earl Hebner is a bit of a shit apparently. He was in on the Montreal Screwjob and also swore to Bret Hart that he wouldn't try and screw him (prior to the match in which Bret had suspicions that something screwy might happen), but was the first person to blitz out of the ring and leave the arena following the screwjob.

Earl (along with his twin brother Dave) was fired by WWE in 2005 after it emerged that they had been illegally selling WWE merchandise in a store that Earl partially owned. Still, 63 year old Earl propositioning strangers for oral sex is a new low.
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Old July 29 2012, 10:21 PM   #383
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Yeah....he's developed a nasty reputation since the Montreal Screw Job (ironic considering that twitter post eh?) and Bret and Earl were really good friends when Earl lied to him about his knowledge. The Screwjob match is still surreal to watch for me, even given what we now know about it. It even looks like they almost botched the screw job!!!
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Old July 29 2012, 10:49 PM   #384
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
WWE has attempted to turn John heel several times and it's back fired in their faces because of the fandom's divisiveness over him. I mean they even used the Rock to try and do this and it didn't happen. It's a phenom that is quite hard to explain really.
They have never tried to turn him heel. They were going for a 50/50 split with The Rock and were actually putting Cena over as the major face for the majority of that feud in order to try to turn some fans from Rock to Cena (The Rock actually held back during much of that feud as he would have eclipsed Cena. See also Cena calling The Rock on writing notes for promos on his wrist which The Rock has NEVER done save for this one angle which he did as a device to help put over Cena).

You may have read into certain angles which could have conceivably turned Cena heel but they have never started or ended any programme with a heel turn on the cards.
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Old July 30 2012, 07:52 PM   #385
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

i think they really missed an opportunity after wrestlemania. i would have had the loss to the rock be crushing and totally killed cenas confidence. a prolonged losing streak would follow the next few months to the likes of brock lesner. then have him work his way back up, have the fans get behind him as he tries to recapture the championship. when he does, say at royal rumble, he says its great and everything but he still lost to rock at wrestlemania. with the rematch coming you can rehash the stone cold "i need to beat you rock" storyline. then go wherever you want after that. thats fantasy booking though.

as for punk attacking the rock, i think its a brilliant way to play off some real life heat that punk had for the rock. punks the champ and still gets passed over for the rock. people can get behind both of them since it really is a legitimate gripe.

we'll see. punk still is the best at what he does (to quote jericho) as either a heel or face. he could definitely pull off a tweener role for the next few months.
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Old July 31 2012, 03:09 AM   #386
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Having Cena down and out for that long won't sell t-shirts to the proles though.

I'll tell you what makes me laugh, when you see grown men and people who should be old enough to know better dressed in the full Cena gear in the crowd. Including headbands. I'm no Cena hater, but I do wonder about some marks.
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Old July 31 2012, 06:16 AM   #387
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Tout has to be about the dumbest segment ever. It irritates me more than the trending updates all night long. I think I'm going to back to not watching for a while again.
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Old July 31 2012, 06:40 AM   #388
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Tout is a potent reminder of what absolute fucking imbeciles and social spastics wrestling fans are. It's a shame to be associated with them.
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Old July 31 2012, 04:29 PM   #389
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Okay, so the second episode of the 3-hour RAW Supershow is in the books and I couldn't help but notice something was missing. Maybe it was the lack of misogynist phrases coming out of Jerry lawler's mouth for a change. Maybe it was Michael Cole not vomiting forth his corporate buzzwords "Smart, Sexy, Powerful". Maybe it was the fact that the only women seen onscreen in recent memory have been AJ, Stephanie McMahon, and a cameo from Divas Champion Layla.

Let me get this straight, we have enough time in the program to see Damien Sandow show a clip from last week and then beat down Brodus Clay for no logical reason, but to ignite a feud that no one with any standards will give two shits about. We have enough time to watch Daniel Bryan walk up to a door and decide not to open it not once, but twice. We have enough time to showcase the minor fire that started before the doors opened at the arena for several minutes... but we simply don't have enough time for a Divas match?

Even a brief, pointless scene to show us they're still employed by the company even if their not being used. I only just found out that WWE released Kharma...

I'm very critical of TNA's product, but even they managed to have a successful Women's division without fucking it up. WWE hasn't done that since Trish and Lita were trading the Women's title back and forth in 2004.
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Old July 31 2012, 04:57 PM   #390
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

^
Personally, I'd rather the Divas didn't appear than compete in two minute restrictive matches that serve no purpose other than to highlight the incompetence of WWE's road agents who have no interest in improving the division by laying out decent matches and accentuating the strengths of the weaker performers.

Since around 04/05, the hiring practises when it comes to Divas has involved underwear models, reality TV veterans and wannabe actresses - all with negligible wrestling experience. Furthermore, they've reported to FCW (and the previous farm territories) where they've been trained to work a basic WWE style - since they have no prior wrestling training, and they are then called up to the main roster where they are met with unenthusiastic road agents and a creative division that doesn't really give a shit about them unless they slightly let themselves go or dare to look like a real woman (Mickie James anyone?), in which case they are met with disgusting jibes.

To illustrate my point, here is a list of some of the past WWE Divas and their backgrounds:

Chyna: Former bodybuilder and fitness model, trained by Killer Kowalski.
Lita: Indie wrestler, trained by Dory Funk Jr.
Trish Stratus: Former fitness model, trained by Ron Hutchinson.
Ivory: Indie wrestler, trained by Mando Guerrero
Victoria: Former fitness model and bodybuilder, trained in several dev territories.
Molly Holly: Former power lifter and gymnast, trained by Dave Finlay and the WCW Power Plant.
Mickie James: Indie wrestler, trained by Dory Funk Jr.

See, the most acclaimed Divas of old all had athletic backgrounds and a decent amount of training before they even made it to the farm territories! Fortunately, with the recent hiring of Sara Del Rey and emerging talk of WWE looking for more physical female talent, it seems the Divas division may get a long awaited reboot.
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