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Old June 22 2012, 11:32 PM   #271
Admiral_Young
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

If that is true, then I'll be one happy Jerichoholic. JeriTroll was fine at first, and I was marking out to him, but then they ended up not doing anything with him at all.
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Old June 23 2012, 07:04 AM   #272
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
If that is true, then I'll be one happy Jerichoholic. JeriTroll was fine at first, and I was marking out to him, but then they ended up not doing anything with him at all.
The first time he came out and did that extended "so happy to be here" and then leaving without saying anything was one of the most epic things to come out of WWE this year. I just have no idea where it wrong, actually tell a lie I do and people might not like it.

I think Jericho and Punk were mismatched at that point, the feud just seemed really rushed, as if it was something that had to happen because some fans had demanded it for years, rather than teasing conflict and trying to build chemistry (a'la any long running feud/rivalry in pro wrestling). There was something just "not Jericho" about him constantly going on about the apparent substance abuse problems in Punk's family and trying to turn Punk into an alcoholic by showering him in booze every week.

In my opinion, Jericho is at his best when he's in cocky mode and playing subtle mind games that aren't in your face and personal like bringing up shit (which may or may not be true) about Punk's family in an effort to unnerve him. Rather, it would have made more sense to have Jericho come out a week after earning his place in the Elimination Chamber and shit all over everyone else in it apart from Punk - whom he wouldn't actually mention. Jericho would continue this non-acknowledgement of Punk up until the Raw before EC where he would talk about how Punk essentially assumed his identity and all the other stuff about Chris Jericho wannabes. He'd go on to say that since the real Y2J is here, there is no need to bother with second rate stand in's (or something to that effect), cue Punk coming out and dropping pipe bombs, etc. The segment would end with a staredown.

At EC Jericho would pick up the win by last eliminating Punk through some devious and heel building method, say that someone comes to ringside that Punk doesn't really want to see (kayfabe) like an ex-girlfriend (played by one of the FCW Divas) whom he dumped for some apparently malicious reason. This would give Jericho the opportunity to lay Punk out with a weapon or something and then celebrate in the ring with the mysterious woman revealing that they had been in cahoots.

I think rather than involving Punk's family, they could have used mock characters.
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Old June 23 2012, 07:35 AM   #273
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

I don't think Punk and Jericho were mismatched or really that their program was mishandled. There just wasn't really any real point or ultimate result from it. Punk was already enormously over as WWE Champion (even if he wasn't champion he was over) there was no need to put Punk over. I'm still disappointed Jericho didn't get a title win personally, even if he were to drop it back to Punk. Their 28 match was pretty awesome but I dunno, the whole program just fell flat to me without having any real outcome.

Maybe if Jericho had a program against Daniel Bryan when he was World Champion instead of having one with Sheamus (let Sheamus wait) that would have been HUGE. It's a tough thing though. There aren't too many guys that Jericho could have worked with to put over that needed it.
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Old June 24 2012, 12:26 AM   #274
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

If the WWE hadn't been forced to suspend Chris Jericho for PR purposes, he would've continued to have been booked as one of the WWE's top heels because, even in losing to CM Punk twice and coming up short in the Fatal Four Way World Heavyweight title match. The thing about Jericho, especially at this stage of his career, is that he doesn't have to be booked to win matches in order to keep his spot as a top-tier guy and a bonafide legend and future WWE Hall-of-Famer.

The people who are deriding Jericho's return earlier this year as being pointless because we never got any explanation as to what his hype videos were about completely missed the point of them. As per Jericho's own admission, they weren't intended to have any deeper symbolic meaning or point other than to hype up his return in a fun and unique manner in keeping with the way he'd come into the company and the way he'd returned to it in 2007. As he explained in an interview a month or two ago, the whole 'end of the world as you know it' concept for the videos was a suggestion from Vince McMahon, and one that he ran with because he liked the idea and because it was a way to play on the whole furor/argument/debate over whether or not the world is going to come to an end in December of this year. The actual imagry and content of the videos were not supposed to be an indication of the substance of his return, nor were they meant to have any deeper symbolic meaning.

As far as Jericho returning from his PR-purposes suspension as a face goes, the thing that people need to realize is that, even if he does come back as a fan-favorite, we're not going to be seeing a return to his previous face persona; we might see him bring back a catchphrase or two, but, in terms of substance, any future face persona he adopts will be willfully different, new, and fresh because, as he's said repeatedly before, he is the kind of person who believes in never doing the same thing twice.
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Old June 24 2012, 12:38 AM   #275
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

I get all that, and I get the JeriTroll stuff...doesn't mean it was no less disappointing to me. The program against Orton that was introduced prior to the suspension, might have been the most interesting thing Jericho did in his return. I wonder if they will revisit this since Orton has professed to wanting to return to a heel (he admitted this to a fan's question on twitter a few weeks ago). I think I mentioned when Chris did return that I felt he had come back to work with the guys he wanted to, and pretty much had the freedom to do what he wanted. It'll be interesting to see what happens when he comes back on Monday. Not that I can see Raw or anything still. Sigh.
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Old June 24 2012, 12:47 AM   #276
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

AY, I'm wondering what, exactly, about the Jericho/Punk program was disappointing to you because, from where I stand, neither man lost anything at all from its outcome. If anything, Punk became even more of a bonafide main eventer than he already was, especially in the eyes of some, by beating Chris.

If they do eventually revisit the Jericho/Orton thing that they started, I don't personally think it would happen until/unless Orton is a face and Jericho is a heel due to Chris' stated preference for not doing the same thing twice. The last time Chris and Randy feuded, Chris was a face and Randy a heel, and, if their feud hadn't been aborted by the WWE having to suspend Chris for PR purposes and Randy getting in trouble for violating the Wellness policy, it would've been different from their previous feud because their positions in terms of alignment would've been reversed and thus would not have been contrary to Chris' stated preference, but if they do the feud with Chris as a face and Randy as a heel, they'd be repeating themselves.
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Old June 24 2012, 12:53 AM   #277
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

I've stated before...I thought JeriTroll should have won the WWE Title at Wrestlemania 28 from Punk...the heat that would have drawn...and then have Punk take it back the next month in his home town. I know people have disagreed with me, that's fine, it's just what I personally was looking for from the program. I understand why it didn't happen.
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Old June 24 2012, 01:00 AM   #278
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

^ I'm a fan of both Jericho and Punk and was 100% expecting their WM match to end differently than it did. However, while I was surprised by the decision to keep the WWE title on Punk, I don't think it ended up hurting Jericho in any way, shape, or form, or that it ended up making their feud pointless.
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Old June 24 2012, 12:06 PM   #279
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I don't think Punk and Jericho were mismatched or really that their program was mishandled.
I saw them as being mismatched because of the way the program was handled. It just felt way too rushed, as if WWE were just throwing it into the mix at Wrestlemania, rather than invest time and effort into the feud.

Anyone can say what they like about it, because it's their opinion, but I think some fans are just tolerant and just cutting their losses because at least they got a Jericho/Punk feud, which is comparable to being happy about a crappy movie because two good actors are in it. As a fan I feel that the feud was severely lacking of depth and it would seem that this was down to the creative team being focused elsewhere.
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Old June 25 2012, 03:40 AM   #280
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

This is interesting. Beth Phoenix says she wants to compete for the World Title.

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/q...le_62707.shtml

Chyna of course became WWE Intercontinental Champion when she beat Jeff Jarrett at No Mercy on Oct 17, 1999. I remember Jericho talking about Chyna in his book...but I think I'd like to see Beth compete for the title. Don't know if creative would actually do something like this, but I'd like to see it.
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Old June 25 2012, 03:50 AM   #281
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

^ At one stage the idea was that Chyna would capture the WWE Championship, this could have been in the works as early as January 1999 when Chyna was the 30th entrant into the Royal Rumble. Of course, lunacy would be called if Chyna were to go over someone like Steve Austin, so who knows how this scenario would have played out!

I've actually been reading Jericho's Undisputed today, it's actually a great read and I'm sure anyone who has read it will agree. The problems Jericho faced during his first few months with WWE are staggering to say the least, especially when you consider that nowadays somebody with the heat that he had would probably be released.
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Old June 25 2012, 04:04 AM   #282
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

That would've been interesting. Is that the Rumble that Vince wound up winning that led to the Austin/McMahon Cage Match where Paul Wright debuted?
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Old June 25 2012, 04:11 AM   #283
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
That would've been interesting. Is that the Rumble that Vince wound up winning that led to the Austin/McMahon Cage Match where Paul Wright debuted?
Unfortunately...

I guess they reasoned that Steve Austin getting the hat trick was too much at that stage and they needed to come up with a new twist on the ongoing Austin/McMahon feud - which necessitated Vince winning the Rumble.

It's a sad state of affairs to think that back then there were no faces similar in caliber to Steve Austin who could win the Rumble and then go on to challenge The Rock at Wrestlemania. So instead they go take a massive detour which concludes with Austin going on to challenge Rock at Wrestlemania anyway!

Looking back, I can see the possibility of Rock dropping the WWE Championship to Triple H who would then in turn (cringes) drop the WWE Championship to Chyna at Wrestlemania. Then you could have Wrestlemania with Austin vs. McMahon in the main event along with Mick Foley vs. The Rock.
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Old June 25 2012, 06:51 AM   #284
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Ah what if's. My friends and I used to do alternate booking stuff all the time. Fun stuff! I also remember being pissed off...at both Vince's Rumble win, and when Wright was involved in the cage match. The catch match it's self was brilliant IMO up until that point. I get what they were trying to do...go for shock value (I knew Wright had signed with WWF at the time though) and built up immediate heat for Wright and like you said continue the McMahon/Austin feud.
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Old June 25 2012, 07:17 AM   #285
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

^ It was essentially a re-hash of the Bad Blood 97 HIAC finish where Kane made his debut, ripped the cell door off and attacked Taker allowing HBK to get the win.
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