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Old June 21 2012, 04:28 AM   #256
Mr Silver
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

I love these people who think they know it all and can attest to that by writing articles. It's ludicrous, so much of their material is just re-spun stuff that someone like Dave Meltzer first published in the WON years ago.

I've got not issues with people writing long opinion pieces, making observations and discussing how they would do things, after all I do this myself frequently. I don't profess to know anything though and I will not disguise other's material within my own opinions, rather I'll credit it elsewhere - "the dirt sheets" or "some people have speculated" - things like that rather than passing it off as gospel which is what so many of these "columnists" seem to do.

Any die hard wrestling fan knows that WWE has a polarity shifting attitude towards the concept of "professional wrestling". The article writer dropped a cracker here:

Vince McMahon wanted to take the company public because it made him worth more money, and to him, it was a step to take in the effort of making the company more Hollywood
It's not even speculative, it's written as if it is fact, I mean has Vince McMahon actually ever said that he wants WWE to be more Hollywood? No, yet the article writer claims that this was his personal intention (are you a mind reader Justin?). And seriously, WWE as Hollywood? No, that's not it at all, every die hard wrestling fan knows that McMahon has always been about taking pro wrestling mainstream, he's said this stuff numerous times in interviews and it's evidenced by his collaborations with other popular forms of entertainment such as the Rock 'N' Wrestling partnership in the 1980's, the story lines involving Mike Tyson in 1998 and even the guest host thing that has been more of a plague than an aid. As for taking the company public, what's saying that it wasn't a natural progression for a multi-million dollar business?

Vince had already made his fortune by the time the company went public, if anything turning WWE public could have been about fortifying the economics and allowing those who buy stocks and shares to have the opportunity to make their own fortune.
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Old June 21 2012, 04:35 AM   #257
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

I think the commentator was only stating what many fans have felt (including me to be honest) for a long time, that Vince decided to take the company he helped built and move away from the wrestling and focus on getting into hollywood (with WWE Studios) and wall street (with the public stock). I have no issue with what the guy stated. Maybe he was wrong with putting words into Vince's mouth...but the other stuff is what a lot of fans have felt.
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Old June 21 2012, 04:46 AM   #258
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Well the article writer should have (or at least could have) stated that it was his belief and not a fact...

The fact that WWE is publicly traded would work against Vince if he really wanted to break into Hollywood. Such an undertaking would require enormous resources, man power and diversion of aforementioned resources perhaps necessitating the cessation of professional wrestling in the company. This would work against Vince because most of the shareholders (who bought into a pro wrestling company) would probably sell at the announcement of such an insane stunt and Vince and the rest of the WWE would be committing financial suicide...

WWE films is probably just another way of raising mainstream attention and the profile of the WWE performers who are the stars of the films. It's a shit business venture and has been a colossal bomb so far, but nonetheless it attracts attention.
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Old June 21 2012, 04:52 AM   #259
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Admiral M wrote: View Post
Vince McMahon wanted to take the company public because it made him worth more money, and to him, it was a step to take in the effort of making the company more Hollywood
It's not even speculative, it's written as if it is fact, I mean as Vince McMahon actually ever said that he wants WWE to be more Hollywood? No, yet the article writer claims that this was his personal intention (are you a mind reader Justin?). And seriously, WWE as Hollywood? No, that's not it at all, every die hard wrestling fan knows that McMahon has always been about taking pro wrestling mainstream.
Didn't the WWE hire Hollywood writers with TV experience but no wrestling knowledge in the early 2000's to write the shows? WWE attempted to become more mainstream by "going Hollywood"--in this case it's not possible to separate the two since this is the path the WWE chose to take to continue to become more mainstream. The end result of this is that the WWE has trained its fans that mic skills and funny skits are as important, if not moreso, than wrestling ability. Would WWE be as mainstream if they focused on actual wrestling? Likely not but it's the direction they've chosen.
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Old June 21 2012, 04:55 AM   #260
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Hell, Vince hired Freddie Prinze Jr. as a Smackdown writer. They have had hollywood writers, and again as I've mentioned several times he has reported (I'll grant there is no confirmation on this) that he refers to the titles as props and has the talent call them props as well. I totally get where the article was coming from.
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Old June 21 2012, 05:07 AM   #261
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Sheep wrote: View Post
Didn't the WWE hire Hollywood writers with TV experience but no wrestling knowledge in the early 2000's to write the shows?
They still do, and it's not exactly the best thing for them to do in some ways. The way I see it, WWE wants to move away from classic wrestling cliches and the only way they can do that is by hiring writers that have dramatic experience.

It would be perfect if these writers were die hard wrestling fans that also had experience working in a creative wrestling setting, but the sad truth is that most television writers will take a career in Hollywood over a career in WWE because it's far more prestigious, probably pays more in the long run and can lead to bigger and better opportunities. The writers that have been in Hollywood and are now in WWE would very likely not be in WWE if there were suitable jobs available for them in Hollywood.

So WWE needs experienced dramatic television writers who are familiar with their company, product and writing in a wrestling creative team. It's possible that WWE hopes that these "Hollywood" writers will grow into the WWE setting and eventually understand the system with the help of the existing creative team members - thereby they will eventually have the aforementioned dramatic television writers who are familiar with pro wrestling, WWE and writing in a wrestling creative team.

It's pretty similar to FCW and WWE's hiring of blank canvas talent (those with minimal experience or unknowns) so they can train them in the WWE way and make them WWE stars whilst taking the best bits of who they are and erasing the things that they don't want like previous in-ring names, looks and gimmicks.

@ Admiral_Young: Freddie Prinze Jr. is actually a die hard fan of professional wrestling and WWE, in his case it was WWE doing something right.
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Old June 21 2012, 05:28 AM   #262
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

I'm aware of Freddy's fandom, that wasn't the point of why I was bringing him out, and I don't see how it was WWE was doing "something right" in that case. They might as well hire all us fan boys who are huge fans and have ideas LOL.

You know it's a sad state of affairs when we're having a passionate debate about something other than what's going on television LOL.
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Old June 21 2012, 07:57 AM   #263
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I don't see how it was WWE was doing "something right" in that case. They might as well hire all us fan boys who are huge fans and have ideas LOL.
OTC, the fact that he's a fan boy along with years of experience in film and TV as an actor, producer, writer, etc made him perfect for the job within the new direction that WWE is aiming for.

It's not a bad thing trying to add a realistic and more dramatic dimension than just two guys wrestling because they are polar opposites personality wise (face and heel). The concept of storytelling is something often overlooked in wrestling and when it is put into play, it results in stellar matches (Taker vs Triple H at WM28 anyone?)
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Old June 21 2012, 09:48 AM   #264
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Looks like Vicki is going to be Interim GM next week...are we back to the rotating GM's? I'm guessing permanent General Managers won't be announced until the 100--errrrrrrr 1000th episode of Raw.

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/q...le_62614.shtml
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Old June 21 2012, 06:30 PM   #265
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
You know it's a sad state of affairs when we're having a passionate debate about something other than what's going on television LOL.
I don't mind wrestling related discussions focusing on the bigger picture. There are only so many ways we can say Bryan and Punk are the best things in the WWE today, the Tensai gimmick sucks, and how long are they going to have Ryback squash high schoolers?
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Old June 21 2012, 06:31 PM   #266
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Looks like Vicki is going to be Interim GM next week...are we back to the rotating GM's?
Why are you so surprised, Foley announced that there would be rotating GMs (all former GMs or other authority figures) until permanent ones are found by the BoD.
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Old June 21 2012, 07:38 PM   #267
Mr Silver
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Sheep wrote: View Post
I don't mind wrestling related discussions focusing on the bigger picture. There are only so many ways we can say Bryan and Punk are the best things in the WWE today, the Tensai gimmick sucks, and how long are they going to have Ryback squash high schoolers?
Precisely,

I have a tendency to rile up people by arguing favourably or alternatively for unpopular booking decisions. The "IWC" began as a joke about the increasing frequency of "armchair" bookers that began appearing on message boards all over the internet. The initials are a play upon the three letter initials of several wrestling promotions. The ironic thing about "IWC" is that some fans have adopted it as a symbol of pride, when actually it's nothing more than a social subculture where everyone MUST share similar opinions or risk alienation. Considering many of these opinions are based upon just taking things said by dirt sheet writers with reputations like Dave Meltzer as gospel, without actually understand that these views are Dave Meltzer's opinions and not fact or the standards that any true fan of wrestling should acknowledge.

Debate is a key element to any fandom with passionate members (I assume we're all passionate about pro wrestling, otherwise there wouldn't be about 10 of us making several hundreds posts in these threads!) and like Sheep said, looking towards the bigger picture.
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Old June 21 2012, 08:48 PM   #268
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

@Defcon I didn't Raw. I have feeling Vince is going to force feed Rybeck down our throats no matter what. The reaction to Tensei has been luke warm to dead IMO. I liked the A-Train chants at the start but those seem to have trailed off.
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Old June 22 2012, 05:40 PM   #269
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

Rumors have it that Jericho will be returning as a face. To that I say: THANK GOODNESS.

His last heel run didn't do much for me. Yes, he was sadistic and dickish but IMO the entertainment factor just wasn't there. It felt like he was going through the motions with CM Punk even if they did put on some entertaining matches.
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Old June 22 2012, 07:10 PM   #270
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Re: General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

^ That was my impression too. That's why in the end I never expected him to stick around much passed Mania. Between his tour dates with Fozzy and the fact that he appeared to be in the same mindset that he was in before he was 'fired' back in 2005.

While I can't say I prefer him as a face, he feels he constantly needs to reinvent himself. We'll see how it goes.
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