RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,604
Posts: 5,425,165
Members: 24,805
Currently online: 529
Newest member: David Ellerman

TrekToday headlines

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12

New Wizkids Attack Wing Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 16 2011, 01:40 AM   #1
Sybok
Lieutenant
 
Sybok's Avatar
 
just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

little background first time watching this episode (born in 1988, grew up on tng, never got into ds9 since as a kid it was above my head, and when watching the series straight through couple years back I must of somehow skipped this one surprisingly)


to the point, i was really surprised how into himself worf got about the sword, thinking that it was his destiny to bring it back to the emperor and lead the empire as the new chancellor... to me i seemed really out of character for worf to get such a power trip, to me he always had a noble humbleness, any thoughts?

did enjoy the power struggle though between him and kor, made for an interesting episode for a first time viewing and not quite knowing how it was going to turn out
Sybok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2011, 12:58 AM   #2
indolover
Fleet Captain
 
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

I don't think it's out of character. The way I see it is that Kahless is a divine figure for Klingons, kind of like a Klingon equivalent to Jesus. As Worf is in his heart a Klingon, despite living with humans for most of his life, how can he not get crazed with power when holding the sword his God (in a sense) once held?
indolover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2011, 03:54 AM   #3
heavylids
Lieutenant Commander
 
heavylids's Avatar
 
Location: Rura Penthe
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

He also mentioned having a dream or vision that said he would do something no other Klingon has. He originally thought it was joining Starfleet, but finding the sword would be more profound in the eyes of his people. I could see how he got a little carried away.
heavylids is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 2 2012, 07:29 PM   #4
Mygaffer
Cadet
 
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

It did feel really out of character for Worf. Worf has always been about honor, both personal and professional. Yet here is basically tries to murder his companion and boyhood idol by telling him there was a ledge when Jadzia confirms that it would never have held Kor's weight and that Worf knew it.
I understand the writers were trying to make a point, that the Sword of Kahless has so much allure to a Klingon that even someone like Worf will be corrupted by it, kind of like the one ring, but it still bugs me when they allow a central character to act SOO out of character.
Mygaffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 3 2012, 05:59 AM   #5
IntrepidMan
Fleet Captain
 
IntrepidMan's Avatar
 
Location: USA
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

Yes, Worf's powertrip over the sword is out of character, but like others have said that is the whole point of the episode. The writers wanted to show what a corrupted influence the sword can have on those who are not ready to wield it. Worf, to his credit, realizes this, and thus his decision to throw the sword away.
IntrepidMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 3 2012, 06:14 AM   #6
heavylids
Lieutenant Commander
 
heavylids's Avatar
 
Location: Rura Penthe
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

^ Good point. The sword is equivalent to the holy grail. Worf definitely has a messiah complex in this episode.
__________________
"Divine intervention is...unlikely" - The Doctor
heavylids is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4 2012, 10:50 PM   #7
Worf'sParmach
Commander
 
Worf'sParmach's Avatar
 
Location: Plano, TX
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

Mygaffer wrote: View Post
It did feel really out of character for Worf. Worf has always been about honor, both personal and professional. Yet here is basically tries to murder his companion and boyhood idol by telling him there was a ledge when Jadzia confirms that it would never have held Kor's weight and that Worf knew it.
I understand the writers were trying to make a point, that the Sword of Kahless has so much allure to a Klingon that even someone like Worf will be corrupted by it, kind of like the one ring, but it still bugs me when they allow a central character to act SOO out of character.
I agree. I thought it was too far out of characters. I chalked it up to the DS9 writers not quite having a handle on Worf yet.
__________________
Obsessing over every detail in the Star Trek Universe since the 1990s
Check out my fanfic (pretty please ): http://www.fanfiction.net/~ginomo
Worf'sParmach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5 2012, 02:23 AM   #8
BennyRussel
Commander
 
BennyRussel's Avatar
 
Location: Right around the corner. Just across the track.
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

Without giving spoilers, in Season 7, someone gives Worf a nice lecture about how all the Klingons' talk about honor is a little hollow. I think the way Kor and Worf act in this episode proves that to an extent. They both show pettiness, selfishness and childish behavior. Either the writers got it way wrong or they did a great job of showing us a different side of Worf and the Klingons in general.
__________________
"No I don't hate Balboa. But I pity the fool."
- C. Lang
1982
BennyRussel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5 2012, 03:38 AM   #9
Worf'sParmach
Commander
 
Worf'sParmach's Avatar
 
Location: Plano, TX
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

BennyRussel wrote: View Post
Without giving spoilers, in Season 7, someone gives Worf a nice lecture about how all the Klingons' talk about honor is a little hollow.
That was when I decided that I really liked that character.
__________________
Obsessing over every detail in the Star Trek Universe since the 1990s
Check out my fanfic (pretty please ): http://www.fanfiction.net/~ginomo
Worf'sParmach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5 2012, 07:17 AM   #10
TheLobes
Commander
 
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

That episode always stands out to me as one of the most awful pieces of DS9. Yes, it was very out of character. Of course, out of character isnt necessarily a bad thing. Loads of characters do things which seem out of touch with their nature, this can be really good storytelling.

The problem with 'sword of kahless' isnt as much that Worf acts out of character as much as that the writing just isnt very good. You can see very quickly whats going to happen, and the change seems to come about very quickly, with no kind of resistance from Worf. It wasnt subtle or believable, and such a change seemed out of place in a story that was of such little consequence. Even the sword itself didnt seem very important. I mean, sure, we're told it is, but I never really got the feeling it was because I knew the sword was just going to be part of this one episode.

Heres a bit of background from Memory Alpha:

"This episode was not a popular one amongst the fans, something which disappointed writer Hans Beimler and producer René Echevarria. What particularly disappointed them was the fact that many viewers were unable to accept the notion that the bat'leth itself had no actual power. According to Echevarria, "A lot of fan reaction was that there must be a tech explanation, that the sword must be emitting something. I was astonished." Beimler explains Echevarria's astonishment when he says, "the sword itself doesn't have any magic. It's the concept of the sword that has the power. We wanted to explore the notion that there were some dark streaks to be revealed within these characters. The minute anyone starts talking about the sword it starts infecting them, so Worf gets caught up from the very beginning." Both men were disappointed that many fans missed this point, instead assuming that the Sword of Kahless had some mysterious power that simply wasn't revealed in the episode."

Yeah, sorry, it wasnt the fans, it was the writing. The 'notion that there were some dark streaks' in the characters wasnt really 'explored', it was just shoved in our faces. It wasnt explored, it was declared, and it wasnt at all engaging.
TheLobes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5 2012, 07:49 AM   #11
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

While I can't say I'd be a fan of a longer version of the episode, a more gradual transformation of the characters might have helped matters. The comparison to Frodo and the Ring was apt.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5 2012, 08:01 PM   #12
IntrepidMan
Fleet Captain
 
IntrepidMan's Avatar
 
Location: USA
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

^Unfortunately, 45 minutes of episode time does not leave a lot of room for gradual transformations.

Look, Worf isn't perfect. Why do fans insist on idolizing him? He is overall a very honorable person, but he has a darker side just like everyone else. This makes him a much more believable and interesting character. I think the DS9 writers did a good job of exploring this darker side--he could be overwhelmed with jealousy around Jadzia and Ezri, he was overly strict with engineering crewmembers on the Defiant, and he selfishly covets the sword of Kahless. This is no ordinary sword--it can reunite his people and lead them to greatness. Of course he lets it go to his head! Anyone would.
IntrepidMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6 2012, 03:22 AM   #13
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

(blinks) I'm not sure whether that last was in any way aimed at me, but I most certainly don't think Worf is perfect.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6 2012, 03:27 AM   #14
Eric Cheung
Fleet Captain
 
Eric Cheung's Avatar
 
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

This episode is pretty much in line with how DS9 characterized Worf. They took him to some pretty dark places throughout his time on the station, far more so than they did on TNG. And as with the rest of the series, Dax is Worf's voice of reason in this episode.
Eric Cheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6 2012, 06:39 PM   #15
IntrepidMan
Fleet Captain
 
IntrepidMan's Avatar
 
Location: USA
Re: just watched "sword of kahless"... about worf

Eric Cheung wrote: View Post
This episode is pretty much in line with how DS9 characterized Worf. They took him to some pretty dark places throughout his time on the station, far more so than they did on TNG.

Exactly.

DonIago, the last part of my post was not directed at you, but was a response to the OP and to those fans who think that Worf is always noble and honorable and that whenever he acts otherwise he is somehow "out of character."
IntrepidMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.