Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

[Nick Ryder]

I actually am kind of hoping for an Emma Frost run X-Men actually, but in reality I have a feeling that she'll be a Headmistress at the Jean Grey Institute sooner than later. As much as I like Kitty Pryde in that role, she never did strike me as "the Principal" more than Emma Frost did.

Besides, I enjoy the friction those two have together. The conservative little Jewish girl and the Big Bad Blonde.

[Turtletrekker]

MNM wrote:

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Though anything that does that is welcome.

Amen to that! I really can't stand the Hellfire Tots, and they are the main reason that I can't take WatXM seriously.

[Admiral_Young]

And I of course disagree. They're the perfect counterpoint to Logan's school. A group of rich, psychotic children who have telepathic destructive powers. The purpose of them of course goes along with Logan's entire reason for being at the school in the first place and why the Schism happened. They're an extreme reason. Twisted kids with a thirst for destruction and who simply don't care about the consequences.We're not supposed to like them. That's kind of the point of them.

Jason Aaron sometimes doesn't take the book too seriously...that is why it has become one of my top three current favourite books. It balances seriousness and fun at the same time. The issue featuring Doop is a perfect example of this IMO...well maybe not, since it was a little over the top

[Turtletrekker]

It's not even so much that I don't like them (although, I really don't) it's that I can't take them seriously as a credible threat.

[Admiral_Young]

Oh I understand. At first I was like...wtf...then I kind of liked them. It is actually going to be interesting to see what Aaron does with them post AVX.


Speaking of post AVX...anyone going to be following Consequences and Avengers Plus X? I will be getting both books.

[Turtletrekker]

I'll be getting Consequences.

[Mr Light]

I like the Hellfire kids and I'm really enjoying Wolv & X-Men, actually it's the only X book I particularly like.

[Praetor_Shinzon]

Turtletrekker wrote:

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Amen to that! I really can't stand the Hellfire Tots, and they are the main reason that I can't take WatXM seriously.

can't stand the Hellfire Tots either. though i do enjoy Wolverine and the X-Men.

[Hound of UIster]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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And I of course disagree. They're the perfect counterpoint to Logan's school. A group of rich, psychotic children who have telepathic destructive powers. The purpose of them of course goes along with Logan's entire reason for being at the school in the first place and why the Schism happened. They're an extreme reason. Twisted kids with a thirst for destruction and who simply don't care about the consequences.We're not supposed to like them. That's kind of the point of them.

The problem isn't that they are a foil to Wolverine's flavor of the week New Mutants/Young X-Men, it's that they took over the freaking Hellfire Club and their leader has proclaimed himself as the new Black King. If they were the new Hellions, it might have been more tolerable.

[Nick Ryder]

EXACTLY
They're the new Hellions at best -but the Hellfire Club? Seriously? I'd almost want Emma to just say "Screw it, I'm taking over the HC just to get these brats out of the way. Logan, you can thank me later."

[Turtletrekker]

On the "When Worlds Collide" blog over at CBR, contributors Chad Nevett and Timothy Callahan give an excellent recap of AvX and where it went right and where it went wrong.

Money quote from Nevett--

Cyclops was right. The final issue is nothing but proof that Cyclops was 100% correct in the first issue of "Avengers vs. X-Men" and, yet, somehow, he became the villain. At the beginning of the story, he told Captain America that the Phoenix was coming to Earth to bring back the mutants and use Hope as its host. Captain America called him crazy (and with good reason, I might add) and, so, they fought. But, when the Phoenix arrived and was 'broken' by Tony Stark, it possessed five different X-Men who claimed that they were simply holding onto the power until Hope was ready for it, which, again, is true. During this time, the Phoenix Five did a lot of good things, but four of the members proved corrupt and were stripped of their power. However, Cyclops never wavered until issue 11. Up until that point, he continually kept the others in check, told them to be patient with the Avengers, and, generally, only reacted to the violent attacks of the Avengers. In issue 11, he was again attacked and, surprise, surprise, was finally pushed to the point where he overreacted to their attack, killing someone who was actively trying to assault his mind (self-defense?) and, generally, getting really pissed off at the heroes who wouldn't even try to work with him, who automatically assumed him crazy and corrupt… despite the fact that he was right. In the end, Captain America, after having known Hope for all of two weeks, decided that she was more trustworthy than Cyclops, a mutant superhero he's known for years and fought besides dozens of times, and allowed Hope and the Phoenix to do exactly what Cyclops said they would.

Cyclops is the hero of "Avengers vs. X-Men" and Captain America is the villain.

But, I wouldn't say that that's the story that Marvel tried to tell, would you? Which is what I found frustrating. You can't present a seemingly off-balance/crazy character in the beginning like they did with Cyclops and, then, have him actually be right the entire time. They were some hints about that at the end of the event (more in the latest issue of "Uncanny X-Men" than in "Avengers vs. X-Men" #12), but it's a fairly messed up way to present a story and suffers a little from the semi-recent idea at Marvel that Captain America Cannot Be Wrong. No matter what, that's the one character that is never wrong even when he's clearly wrong.

I agree with everything except his opinion of Cyclops state of mind at the begining of the story. With the info from the future that Cyclops had at his disposal, info that Cap and Stabby McKnifehands didn't have access to, Scott was entirely justified his attempt to keep the Avengers away from Hope.

[Guy Gardener]

He had facts about Hope? I thought he only had faith about hope.

[Nerys Myk]

Guy Gardener wrote:

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He had facts about Hope? I thought he only had faith about hope.

He was being charitable.

[Turtletrekker]

Well, as I mentioned 400 posts or so ago, Cable showed Scott a vision of an apocalyptic future and told him that this would be the result if he let the Avengers take Hope. Fact. Also, Fact-- Even before the Phoenix arrived, Hope had already re-ignited the mutant race, but just at a much slower pace than after she hosted the Phoenix.

Put those facts together, and I still say Cyclops was more than justified in his belief/faith that Hope would restore the mutant race. And don't forget-- he was right.

[Skywalker]

So...basically, Captain America comes out looking like the good guy because he's the one who was just in a billion-dollar movie, right?