Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

[timothy]

Very cool thanks for that. Three other titles I want are:

The amazing spiderman
Fantastic four
The hulk

And maybe THOR.

[DarthPipes]

You see, I thought Wolverine and the X-Men #10 made Scott look the best he's been in months. He doesn't go all crazy and talks about his hope for...well, Hope. He keeps things on the positive and makes a better argument for his side than Wolverine does, who still relies on the whole "You're all nuts" card.

The one knock I have about Scott's argument about the Phoenix being the savior of mutantkind is that he sure as hell hasn't acted like it is. He absolutely refused to talk about it with Hope, even when asked by her about it. He's supposed to be a strategic genius but anyone with common sense knows that you only make things worse when you refuse to acknoweldge a problem. The Phoenix is the savior and Hope is the likely host yet he refuses to tell Hope anything about it. Despite the fact that it could help prepare her. By doing so, Scott has made this situation with Hope a lot worse. Quite frankly, his refusal to tell her anything has been cowardly.

[Turtletrekker]

Previews of next weeks AvX 4 and crossovers...

• Avengers #26
• Avengers Academy #30
• Avengers Vs. X-Men #4
• AvX: VS #2
• Uncanny X-Men #12

I'll be getting al of them except "vs". With the exception of the main book, they are all titles I buy anyway.

[Skywalker]

PsychoPere wrote:

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Avengers

• Avengers
• Avengers Academy
• New Avengers
• Secret Avengers

X-Men

• Astonishing X-Men
• Deadpool
• New Mutants
• Uncanny X-Force
• Uncanny X-Men
• Wolverine
• Wolverine and the X-Men
• X-Factor
• X-Men
• X-Men: Legacy

Good lord, that's ridiculous. No wonder the comic book industry is hurting.

[Turtletrekker]

OK, I've re-read New Avengers 25 along with reading NA 26 for the first time, and my suspisions were correct-- It reads better it one sitting (although there is still at least one more issue of this plot to go).

The story of a young red-headed girl named Fongji who lived hundreds of years ago and is prophisized to become the host of Phoenix. Master Yu-Ti of K'un L'un takes her in to be trained body and soul for the arrival of the Phoenix.

Yu-Ti recruits the aid of Leonardo DaVinci (Yes, that Leonardo DaVinci. For those of you who aren't following Johnathon Hickman's excellent SHIELD series, Leonardo was recently revealed to have been the greatest of the world's heroes in his time. A man of action like Nick Fury with the brain-power of Reed Richards), who is escorted to K'un L'un builds a device that will allow them to detect the Phoenix's arrival.

Yu-Ti's and Leonardo's approach to handling the Phoenix seems along the lines of what Cyclops was doing in AvX #1. In fact, Fongji has a flare-up of the Phoenix power that is ominously similar to the one Hope had in AvX #1. Fongji then enters the cave of the dragon Shao Lao, and emerges 2 days later as the new Iron Fist.

The issue ends with Leonardo detecting the arrival of the Phoenix and gives the warning of (You all see this a mile away, right?) "It's coming!"

The second issue of this arc leaves me wanting to read the next issue now, while the first issue made me go "WTF is this all about?" In typical Bendis style, he took two issues to get to the point of a story that could have easily been told in one.

[Allyn Gibson]

Out today, Avengers Vs. X-Men #4!

The battle of hero vs. hero rages on! With Wolverine abandoned by the Avengers, where will he stand in the battle for Hope?

Some thoughts.

This may be the worst issue yet.

Set aside the polar bears in Antarctica (hint: there are no polar bears in Antarctica).

The issue commits an unforgiveable sin. It's boring, and even Hickman's scripting can't save this.

We actually have some narrative momentum. We see the Avengers' Space Team confront the Phoenix Force. We see Hope make the case for why she's ready to host the Phoenix. We see Cyclops and Captain America (separately) make their moves. And we see Wolverine make the choice about which side he's on.

The problem is that none of it connects. Four issues in, and I still don't feel like anything's at stake. I just can't care. And the issue giving us a series of splash pages to show the scope of the battle between the Avengers and the X-Men doesn't help; this is wasted pages.

I know that issue #5 is where everything's supposed to change, but if this is building up to something cataclysmic at the end of issue #5 then this issue failed completely.

There's also an issue of AVX Vs. out today.

[Turtletrekker]

Why, Allyn, it sounds to me like your describing a Marvel "Event". You know what the really scary thing is? AvX is light-years better than Fear Itself was.

The tie-in issues were, once again, better reads than the main event. (Which is another thing that Marvel Events seem to have in common.) The conclusions drawn by Apex in Tabula Rasa about the Namor/Thing re-match (Not to mention Namor and Grimms reaction to those conclusions) in Uncanny X-Men is by far the best character moment in this thing so far. I'll comment more on those later.

I didn't even look at "VS". Why bother?

[Praetor_Shinzon]

some of the character appearances confuse me. does She Hulk showing up in Tabula Rasa take place before or after current events in X-Men Legacy? and does Protector betraying the Avengers take place before or after the apparent rebirth of Captain Mar-Vell?

[Allyn Gibson]

Praetor_Shinzon wrote:

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some of the character appearances confuse me. does She Hulk showing up in Tabula Rasa take place before or after current events in X-Men Legacy? and does Protector betraying the Avengers take place before or after the apparent rebirth of Captain Mar-Vell?

Bleeding Cool has pointed out in several recent articles that the timelines of the various issues don't match up. Marvel editorial is dropping the ball and letting inconsistencies through. For example, the Captain America/Gambit fight in Avengers Vs. X-Men #4 doesn't match up with the version of the fight shown in VS. #2.

[Hound of UIster]

Allyn Gibson wrote:

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Bleeding Cool has pointed out in several recent articles that the timelines of the various issues don't match up. Marvel editorial is dropping the ball and letting inconsistencies through. For example, the Captain America/Gambit fight in Avengers Vs. X-Men #4 doesn't match up with the version of the fight shown in VS. #2.

Marvel editorial has essentially been gutted due to recent budget cuts so they have too few people editing too many books and enormous pressure to deliver more profits from the direct market.

For the AvsX main story creatively, I think it really shows that attempts at having multiple writers doing one story, but not participating in the scripting of each issue really just doesn't work. DC had a similar failure with Countdown. The only real critical success using multiple writers was with 52 and there it was four different writers plotting and writing each issue every week.

[DarthPipes]

The issue sucked. The storyline, characterizations, and motivations are paper thin and we barely see any fighting. Whatever fighting we see is disorganized. I seem to say this a lot but Marvel should be embarrassed to put out this garbage and call it an event.

About Logan...

He's a fucking traitor. It's bad enough that Marvel has ruined him over the past ten years by overexposing him and stripping the character of everything that made him cool. But betraying the X-Men and siding with the Avengers is inexcuseable.

The A vs X tie-ins continue to be far superior to the shit main title.

[Allyn Gibson]

DarthPipes wrote:

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About Logan...

He's a fucking traitor. It's bad enough that Marvel has ruined him over the past ten years by overexposing him and stripping the character of everything that made him cool. But betraying the X-Men and siding with the Avengers is inexcuseable.

The reveal of Wolverine's loyalties at the end of issue #4 had to be part of a plan. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. That Cap and Wolverine had to have a brutal throwdown to make it look legit that the Avengers had abandoned him and he was on his own. That would explain the mind-boggling stupidity of the Cap/Wolverine fight in issue #3. But while that would suffice to fool any casual observer, I'm surprised that would fool Emma Frost.

There is some logic to AVX. It's a stupid logic, but it's still logic.

[Aldo]

I just bought Round 4 today, I really hope it's not as bad as you guys are saying, since I haven't read it yet.

When I picked it up today, the clerk asked me how I was enjoying it so far. Since I'm not used to making small talk with people I don't know, I muttered something about how Spidey was only being used as comic relief. However it got me thinking, and I think my main problem with it is that it feels like the plot is dictating how the character's are behaving. But then again, I'm sure I read these complaints earlier in this thread, so it's nothing new.

[Turtletrekker]

Uncanny X-Men 12 was mostly just a deeper look at the battle in Tabula Rasa and the teams that went there. We see a lot more of the Thing/Namor re-match and this gives us our best bit of humor in story so far.

Last issue's Red Hulk/Colossus fight and this issue's Thing/Namor fight both made for better reads than any of the fights in "vs".

Avengers 26 -- OK, so the events in Kree space in Secret Avengers take place before the events happening in Kree space in this issue, and all of it happens before Thor's return to Earth in AvX 4. Confusing much? I can't complain too much as I loved seeing Walt Simonson drawing Thor again. Frankly, I would gladly pay $3.99 just to see Simonson draw 20-pages of Thor sitting at the laundromat waiting for his cape to dry. And I bet the cape would look awesome.

Avengers Academy 30-- Comparisons to Japanese internment camps during WW2 are raised and largely dismissed as the Academy's mutant students feel compelled to choose a side. X-23, in particular, makes a hard choice as she chooses on principle to side with the X-Kids who never really accepted her over the Academy kids who have. Meanwhile, Sebastian Shaw makes his escape.

[hyzmarca]

Allyn Gibson wrote:

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I've read that three times now, and I still have no idea why Storm leaves like that. "You said the word 'Phoenix,' so I'm outta here, bub!"

Storm has some sense. Phoenix is a top-tier cosmic entity. If your name isn't Galactus, Eternity, Death, or the Living Tribunal, then you don't stand a chance against her. And among those four the Living tribunal is the only one who is guaranteed a win.

Dr. Strange channeling Eternity might have a chance, but Dr. Strange isn't in top form these days and even if he was you really wouldn't want to be in the same dimension as that fight, much less the same planet.



But really, any plan that involves pissing off someone who can trivially destroy planets is utterly insane. Who the hell signs off on a plan that can be summed up as "do something that will make the planet-killing super-god very angry?"

Guy Gardener wrote:

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Go back further to Bishop blaming the concentration camp he was raised in on Hope.

Which doesn't make the slightest bit of sense since M-Day never happened in the timeline Bishop came from and Hope was never born.

Hound of UIster wrote:

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^Which goes to show just how far Cyclops has fallen that Magneto is even now part of the X-Men.

Magneto's been part of the X-Men off and on since the 70s. He usually joins up during his reasonable phases and does a decent job until something happens to start him on a world conquest kick again.

Guy Gardener wrote:

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The medal of Honour can only be given to an American.

By accepting that medal, Cyclops is suggesting that he is not a utopian or THE Utopian.

I still can't believe that Utopia is just Asteroid M with a new paint job.

The medal of honor is a military decoration. One doesn't need to be a citizen to receive it, but one does need to be a member of the United States armed forces. There are a fair number of foreigners serving in the US Air Force, Marines, Navy, and Army. They're all eligible for the Medal of Horor, assuming that they do something that deserves it.