Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion - Page 11

Guy Gardener · April 29 2012, 03:56 AM

Turtletrekker wrote:

Something that occured to me-- Yes, the Phoenix is heading to Earth and destroying every planet in it's path. But what does Earth have that none of these of these other planets didn't? A waiting host.

In X-Sanction, Cable showed Cyclops a future wasteland and told him that this is what would happen if he let the Avengers take Hope. The Avengers want to remove Hope from Earth. Maybe that's the mistake. If the Phoenix arrives at Earth looking for a host and she's gone-- then the 616 is truely toast. Maybe they need to let it come to Hope and let her take control of it, and then she can keep it from destroying Earth. Or better yet, bring her to the Phoenix and keep it from destroying anymore inhabited worlds.

Go back further to Bishop blaming the concentration camp he was raised in on Hope.

Aldo · April 29 2012, 05:33 AM

Hound of UIster wrote:

No. Try getting the main series.

Turtletrekker wrote:

Aldo wrote:

So is issue 0 worth getting? I missed it on newstands but if it's good I may seek it out online.

So, worth getting?

It's worth getting if you don't know who the main players are. The Scarlet Witch has been more of the boogie-woman than a recurring character in the MU for the last 8 years. Hope is a fairly new character that some people may not know. If you're familiar with the players, then, no, it's not vital.

Good enough. Thanks guys, I'll just stick to collecting the main run. Can't wait for Round 3 this Wednesday

Admiral_Young · April 29 2012, 06:34 AM

I would also recommend sticking to the main series as well. Wikipedia is an okay resource to get you up to date. I think House of UIster earlier in the thread provided the arcs to look up.

@TurtleTrekker...you actually read X-Sanction? Also excellent points on why taking Hope is a bad idea and why no one listening in this situation is making things worse.

Aldo · April 29 2012, 06:41 AM

Well like I said earlier, I didn't feel too lost. The issues themselves are doing a decent job of telling me what I need to know to get the most out of this.

The only issue I had was who Hope was, and you guys took care of that for me

Turtletrekker · April 29 2012, 09:53 AM

Admiral_Young wrote:

@TurtleTrekker...you actually read X-Sanction?

Yup. Three issues of repitition followed by one issue of finally getting to the point. The story could've been told in a done-in-one, but it did its job of setting up AvX, establishing Hope as the Phoenix and Cable warning Cyclops that war with the Avengers was coming, and soon.

Admiral_Young · April 29 2012, 09:59 AM

I dropped it after the first issue thinking it was completely useless and typical Jeph Loeb crap. I agree it could have been a one shot. So where is Cable right now, seeing as how I didn't read it. Two issues in plus the zero issue and no sign or mention of Nathan.

Turtletrekker · April 29 2012, 10:24 AM

In the final issue, Hope used the power of the Phoenix to cleanse Cable of the techno-organic virus that he has been fighting for his entire life. We last saw him weak but recovering in Utopia's sickbay.

In a conversation with Cyclops on the psychic plane, Cable showed Scott a vision of a wasteland future, and he and Scott have the following exchange--

Scott: Where are we? Or is it... when are we? Is this real?

Cable: I'm still... healing. But we need to talk. You saw her.

Scott: I did.

Cable: Then you know. Hope is the Phoenix.

Scott: Nathan, I've always believed in you-- even in Hope--that she was or will be the messiah of the mutant race. But... The Phoenix Force-- There's so much about it that we don't understand...
...and so much more that I've-- we've lost because of it.

Cable: This is the world if Hope doesn't fulfill her destiny. This is why we protect her. When war comes with the Avengers-- and it will-- promise me that you will do what is necessary. That you'll make the right decisions no matter how hard they might be. It's what parents do for children.

Scott: I will.

Cable: I will be there when you need me, dad. Sometime soon...
...in the future.

Aldo · April 29 2012, 07:17 PM

That makes Scott's actions in the first issue a little more palpable. Knowing he was shown a certain future if events transpired one way.

Admiral_Young · April 29 2012, 10:57 PM

Scott has been blinded by his belief that Hope combined with the Phoenix will restart the mutant population. This has been his sole motivation for his actions. Somewhat deluded when Phoenix has destroyed in the past, not given. He's blinded and desperate at this point to really hold on to anything.

Aldo · April 30 2012, 12:39 AM

Admiral_Young wrote:

Scott has been blinded by his belief that Hope combined with the Phoenix will restart the mutant population. This has been his sole motivation for his actions. Somewhat deluded when Phoenix has destroyed in the past, not given. He's blinded and desperate at this point to really hold on to anything.

It's better motivation for his actions than just "You have the gall to take her from me" attitude he seemed to be showing towards Cap in the first issue.

Hound of UIster · April 30 2012, 02:19 AM

Well you have to understand that Scott is operating under the idea that he is above the law. So far he has threatened to murder the mayor of a city, he has used death squads to go after enemies of the X-Men approving in essence private assassinations and he has been operating his private penitentiary for those enemies that he hasn't murdered.

So he has been doing a lot of dubious stuff and not telling anyone despite Captain America and the President publicly supporting him.

And not to mention Emma was previously colluding with Norman Osborn when the latter was in charge of HAMMER.

Guy Gardener · April 30 2012, 03:39 AM

You do understand that as a head of state, ruler of a country, if not ruler of a species, he is not bound by human laws, American laws or international laws unless he feels like it?

Scott is as equally legally entitled, & no worse ethically than Castro, Pol Pot or VonDoom.

Hound of UIster · April 30 2012, 03:51 AM

He is not ruler of a country. And America doesn't even formally recognize Utopia as a country.

Aldo · April 30 2012, 04:32 AM

From the sounds of things, I may have to get back into the X-men. What is the best title to collect?

I recall back when I was collecting X-titles, Scott was dead. That was about twelve years ago I think.

Guy Gardener · April 30 2012, 04:46 AM

Hound of UIster wrote:

He is not ruler of a country. And America doesn't even formally recognize Utopia as a country.

What is the difference between WACO and the Bay of Pigs?

Although...

Some wiki-entires are telling me that Osbornes Siege was a siege and not a raid because of Utopia's sovereignty.

April 29 2012, 06:34 AM	#153
Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Location: Metropolis	Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion I would also recommend sticking to the main series as well. Wikipedia is an okay resource to get you up to date. I think House of UIster earlier in the thread provided the arcs to look up. @TurtleTrekker...you actually read X-Sanction? Also excellent points on why taking Hope is a bad idea and why no one listening in this situation is making things worse. __________________ Admiral Young Chief of Operations Ignoring the The Last Stand since 2011.

April 29 2012, 06:41 AM	#154
Aldo Admiral Location: Washington	Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion Well like I said earlier, I didn't feel too lost. The issues themselves are doing a decent job of telling me what I need to know to get the most out of this. The only issue I had was who Hope was, and you guys took care of that for me __________________ I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.

April 29 2012, 09:59 AM	#156
Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Location: Metropolis	Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion I dropped it after the first issue thinking it was completely useless and typical Jeph Loeb crap. I agree it could have been a one shot. So where is Cable right now, seeing as how I didn't read it. Two issues in plus the zero issue and no sign or mention of Nathan. __________________ Admiral Young Chief of Operations Ignoring the The Last Stand since 2011.

April 29 2012, 07:17 PM	#158
Aldo Admiral Location: Washington	Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion That makes Scott's actions in the first issue a little more palpable. Knowing he was shown a certain future if events transpired one way. __________________ I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.

April 29 2012, 10:57 PM	#159
Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Location: Metropolis	Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion Scott has been blinded by his belief that Hope combined with the Phoenix will restart the mutant population. This has been his sole motivation for his actions. Somewhat deluded when Phoenix has destroyed in the past, not given. He's blinded and desperate at this point to really hold on to anything. __________________ Admiral Young Chief of Operations Ignoring the The Last Stand since 2011.

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April 30 2012, 02:19 AM	#161
Hound of UIster Rear Admiral	Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion Well you have to understand that Scott is operating under the idea that he is above the law. So far he has threatened to murder the mayor of a city, he has used death squads to go after enemies of the X-Men approving in essence private assassinations and he has been operating his private penitentiary for those enemies that he hasn't murdered. So he has been doing a lot of dubious stuff and not telling anyone despite Captain America and the President publicly supporting him. And not to mention Emma was previously colluding with Norman Osborn when the latter was in charge of HAMMER.

April 30 2012, 03:39 AM	#162
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion You do understand that as a head of state, ruler of a country, if not ruler of a species, he is not bound by human laws, American laws or international laws unless he feels like it? Scott is as equally legally entitled, & no worse ethically than Castro, Pol Pot or VonDoom. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

April 30 2012, 03:51 AM	#163
Hound of UIster Rear Admiral	Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion He is not ruler of a country. And America doesn't even formally recognize Utopia as a country.

April 30 2012, 04:32 AM	#164
Aldo Admiral Location: Washington	Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion From the sounds of things, I may have to get back into the X-men. What is the best title to collect? I recall back when I was collecting X-titles, Scott was dead. That was about twelve years ago I think. __________________ I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.