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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old September 11 2012, 12:05 PM   #316
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

I strongly suspect that if they were going to bring back Kirk, they'd explain away or gloss over the (minor, until the last two books) differences in Shatnerverse/Treklit Prime continuities, rather than re-ressurrect him.

I just realized, Admiral Janeway being alive and well in 2381 was the biggest discontinuity between Treklit and the Shatnerverse.... and, oh look, suddenly no longer an issue...
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Old September 11 2012, 01:40 PM   #317
JanewayRulz!
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

teacake wrote: View Post
SO OMG QUESTION.

I have cracked the book during a boring bit in Dr. Who. And the first thing I see is the poem at the start.

What am I now that I was then?
May memory restore again and again
The smallest color of the smallest day:
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn

--Delmore Schwartz

Is this a reference to KIRK'S DEATH?! Could it be a piece of foreshadowing that Kirk is coming back just as Janeway has now returned? Coming back in prime Treklit, not Shatnerverse obviously...
I took it as a reference to Picard's fear of death...
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Old September 11 2012, 01:48 PM   #318
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

But Picard didn't die. Kirk did, in a movie with this quote. And then Janeway returned in a book with this quote. It's a dovetail, a teaser.. and you know what, I think it is there just to test the waters. To see if the readers actually care.

You know what we need to do?

We need to start a CAMPAIGN.

Bring Back James Kirk

BBJK

IT"S THE SAME LETTERS, BUT WITH THE INITIALS REVERSED! Lets do it!!!

To Facebook!
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Old September 11 2012, 01:56 PM   #319
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

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Old September 11 2012, 02:20 PM   #320
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

You don't want him back??

Well it might be too late for your opinion to be counted. The foreshadowing, it's on the wall.
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Old September 13 2012, 02:09 PM   #321
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

Finished mine the other day. Finally, she,s back!

Okay, how long do we need to wait for our next fix?
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Old September 13 2012, 02:30 PM   #322
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

And who is going to write it?
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Old September 13 2012, 03:33 PM   #323
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

I'm hoping that Kirsten Beyer will continue to write Voyager novels for a long time yet, and from the looks of release dates of other novels, hopefully we can expect another one in the next year or two.
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Old September 13 2012, 07:15 PM   #324
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

teacake wrote: View Post
You don't want him back??
I don't. And why should we want him back? Between nuTrek, new novels set during TOS, and the Shatnerverse, it's like he never really left anyway.

Meanwhile, I am sick and tired of characters coming back from the dead. It undermines verisimilitude.

Well it might be too late for your opinion to be counted. The foreshadowing, it's on the wall.
I think you're reading more into that Delmore Schwartz quote than is there. For one thing, Soren in GEN was quoting Schwartz; The Eternal Tide is not quoting Soren, it is merely also quoting Schwartz.

For another -- why would they foreshadow that in a VOY book, of all things? The VOY novels are off doing their own thing; it's a completely unintuitive place to foreshadow that.

On top of that, it makes no sense to insert an epigraph into a novel that's more relevant to another novels. Epigraphs are there to shed light on the themes of the novel in which they are included, not to tease about other novels. That would be like having an epigraph relevant to Saving Private Ryan inserted into the opening scenes of Titanic; it just doesn't make sense.
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Old September 13 2012, 07:30 PM   #325
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

In Star Trek death is but a temporary inconvienence. (if you're a main character, if you're a redshirt you're screwed)
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Old September 13 2012, 07:46 PM   #326
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

R. Star wrote: View Post
In Star Trek death is but a temporary inconvienence. (if you're a main character, if you're a redshirt you're screwed)
And that's the problem. It shouldn't be that way, and any time they resurrect a dead character, it perpetuates that impression.

ETA:

Now, hell, I'm not trying to be an absolutist here. There are occasions where a resurrection can work in so many other ways that it outweighs the problem of undermining the threat of death in the narrative. Trip in Enterprise: The Good That Men Do is one example of that, and Janeway's resurrection in Voyager: The Eternal Tide may be as well. (I haven't read it yet, so I don't have an opinion on whether or not her resurrection's virtues outweigh the problem of undermining death.)

But that means that when a creator does break the law of mortality and bring back a dead character, they should be that much more reluctant to do it again. It should be a rare and exceptional thing when that happens, and it should cost the characters or the narrative somehow. (I've often thought one of the brilliant things Star Trek III did was to offset the resurrection of Spock by killing Kirk's son and destroying the original Enterprise.)

ETA #2:

See this video on YouTube for a humorous discussion of how damaging it can be to a franchise when resurrections become common.
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Old September 13 2012, 09:56 PM   #327
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

Finished it. I loved it.
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Old September 13 2012, 10:37 PM   #328
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

Sci wrote: View Post
[
For another -- why would they foreshadow that in a VOY book, of all things?
Why would they kill Janeway off in a TNG book of all things?
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Old September 13 2012, 10:46 PM   #329
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

Sorry, messed up the quote bit, will try again.
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Old September 13 2012, 10:50 PM   #330
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit? (Possible Spoilers)

teacake wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
[
For another -- why would they foreshadow that in a VOY book, of all things?
Why would they kill Janeway off in a TNG book of all things?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Anyway... doesn't he still exist in his own series?
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