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Old April 3 2012, 01:56 AM   #31
Admiral_Young
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

To be specific Mark Millar is a huge fan of Sam Jackson (Sam didn't know until afterwards I believe but liked it a lot)...and he based the other "Ultimates" characters on various actors and actresses as well. In the first arc there is even a discussion among them who they would want playing them in a film. I forget who they suggest for Bruce, but they were making fun of him.
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Old April 3 2012, 01:58 AM   #32
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
Besides, there is really nothing intinsic about the modern Nick Fury that states he must be played by a white man. If they were doing the WW2 "Sgt. Fury" version of character, then race might be an issue, but as long as the character is well-written and portrayed, I wouldn't care what race of actor portrayed him in the modern context.
Sure, in real life, an African-American wouldn't have been allowed in combat in WWII, but then, in real life, a soldier from WWII wouldn't have had his aging artificially slowed so he'd still be young and vigorous in the 2010s. So one shouldn't demand absolute realism anyway.
I don't know if you misstated that or not, but that's incorrect. African American men were indeed allowed into combat during World War II. The 92nd Infantry Division was composed mainly of African American soldiers (with white senior officers, of course) and saw heavy action in Italy. The 93rd ID was another African American unit, and they fought in the Pacific. And of course there were also the Tuskegee Airmen.

The Samuel L. Jackson version of Nick Fury still could have served in World War II, but unless he was part of another special unit like the Howling Commandos, he probably would have been with the 92nd or a fictional African American unit. Then again, in Captain America: The First Avenger, they showed many African American soldiers integrated with the white soldiers, so like you said, there is a precedent there.
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Old April 3 2012, 02:01 AM   #33
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

Ultimate Fury did serve in World War II in the retconned history for the Ultimate Verse in "Ultimate Origin".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Nick_Fury

As for MCU Fury, I believe we're supposed to be learn a bit more about Fury in "Avengers" as well. Or at least that was the early plan. Not sure if Joss revised this plan when he took over the script writing duties.
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Old April 3 2012, 02:40 AM   #34
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
Hell, one of the only good parts of the Daredevil movie was casting Ving Rhames as Wilson Fisk.
Actually that was Michael Clarke Duncan.
D'OH!!
Fixed.
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Old April 3 2012, 04:16 AM   #35
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

Skywalker wrote: View Post
I don't know if you misstated that or not, but that's incorrect. African American men were indeed allowed into combat during World War II.
You're right; in my haste, I did misspeak. What I meant was that they weren't integrated with white soldiers like Gabe Jones was in the Sgt. Fury comic and Captain America: The First Avenger, or as Nick Fury's father Jack was in the Avengers: EMH WWII flashbacks.
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Old April 3 2012, 04:44 AM   #36
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
Skywalker wrote: View Post
I don't know if you misstated that or not, but that's incorrect. African American men were indeed allowed into combat during World War II.
You're right; in my haste, I did misspeak. What I meant was that they weren't integrated with white soldiers like Gabe Jones was in the Sgt. Fury comic and Captain America: The First Avenger, or as Nick Fury's father Jack was in the Avengers: EMH WWII flashbacks.
Yeah, I haven't seen you make many flubs like that, so I figured that was the case.
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Old April 3 2012, 05:17 AM   #37
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
The content of Nick Fury's character is the same regardless of his complexion
Culture does affect a person, though; if that were untrue, then black comedians would meet silence in response to their impersonations of how white people act. Instead, we all laugh because we know there is a difference and the exaggeration of that difference is good for a laugh.

if we were all so interchangeable that we need only put on make-up to be a new race, then we truly would lose our character. Our differences should be celebrated and not homogenized.

That said, the black Nick Fury has shown me that Fury probably should have been black in the first place. It works; and the white Fury now comes across to me as the cheaper version. Of course, it doesn't help that I think about David Hasselhoff whenever I see white Fury.
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Old April 3 2012, 05:22 AM   #38
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

^ That image should be erased if/when we get the promised Sam Jackson "Nick Fury:Agent of Shield" film that is in development right now and that he himself has said is coming and probably part of his nine film deal
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Old April 3 2012, 05:24 AM   #39
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
The content of Nick Fury's character is the same regardless of his complexion
Culture does affect a person, though; if that were untrue, then black comedians would meet silence in response to their impersonations of how white people act. Instead, we all laugh because we know there is a difference and the exaggeration of that difference is good for a laugh.

if we were all so interchangeable that we need only put on make-up to be a new race, then we truly would lose our character. Our differences should be celebrated and not homogenized.

That said, the black Nick Fury has shown me that Fury probably should have been black in the first place. It works; and the white Fury now comes across to me as the cheaper version. Of course, it doesn't help that I think about David Hasselhoff whenever I see white Fury.
All good points, but neither Fury is real. The role they play is the tough as nails military man turned superspy. That's their character.
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Old April 3 2012, 05:37 AM   #40
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
All good points, but neither Fury is real. The role they play is the tough as nails military man turned superspy. That's their character.
I'm sorry, friend; but that's just a description and not a character. Character is nuance; it's not just "I wear a white hat so I'm a good guy.". The Sam Jackson Nick Fury is a different character from David Hasselhoff Nick Fury. They both have the same exact description on paper; both have this same "content of character" you mention; but they are not the same. Are you trying to argue they are the same?

Yes; Nick Fury is not real; but part of story telling is to convince us they are real. If we can not become somehow engaged, then what's the point?
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Old April 3 2012, 05:56 AM   #41
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
All good points, but neither Fury is real. The role they play is the tough as nails military man turned superspy. That's their character.
I'm sorry, friend; but that's just a description and not a character. Character is nuance; it's not just "I wear a white hat so I'm a good guy.". The Sam Jackson Nick Fury is a different character from David Hasselhoff Nick Fury. They both have the same exact description on paper; both have this same "content of character" you mention; but they are not the same. Are you trying to argue they are the same?

Yes; Nick Fury is not real; but part of story telling is to convince us they are real. If we can not become somehow engaged, then what's the point?
Never saw Hasseloff's version. But the Nick Fury I know is a tough as nails military man turned superspy. That's who Jackson plays. So far I haven't seen enough background for Jackson's Fury to go beyond that. "White" Fury in the comics grew up poor and on the streets. He joined the military and went from enlisted man to officer eventually heading an international espionage organization. Seems to me that could be part of the background for Jackson's Fury as well. But I don't know if that's true because it hasn't been explored. Being a fan of comics, I think Jackson's take on Fury is probably influenced by "White" Fury.

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Old April 3 2012, 06:09 AM   #42
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

They're both Nick Fury in alternate realities
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Old April 3 2012, 07:27 AM   #43
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
^Not sure what the correlation there is.[...]
Turtletrekker, the correlation is obvious; you actually didn't see it?:

In both cases, Christopher is (and was) violently opposed to casting caucasian actors - despite the lack of in story/movie business arguments strong enough to support such a radical stance.

His attitude is quite discriminatory; as such, he, full of moral righteousness, calling others on a supposedly similar attitude is more than a little ironic.
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Old April 3 2012, 08:08 AM   #44
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

If you say so, but I still don't see the correlation. I don't think the situations are comparable for the reasons I posted. Did you read my entire post, or just what you quoted?
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Old April 3 2012, 08:22 AM   #45
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Re: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
If you say so, but I still don't see the correlation. I don't think the situations are comparable for the reasons I posted. Did you read my entire post, or just what you quoted?
I did read your entire previous post, Turtletrekker. I addressed, synthetically, your arguments in my previous post: "despite the lack of in story/movie business arguments strong enough to support such a radical stance"

Your arguments are hair-splitting (the kind that can always be found for any side of an argument - see the discussion regarding Fury that followed) - and they most definitely do NOT justify a consistently discriminatory position such as Christopher's.

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