Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

[timothy]

Looking forward to season plan to rewatch season 1 on netflix.

However that is not the proper guardian team no major victory or starhawk argh!

[Samurai8472]

Turtletrekker wrote:

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I submit for your consideration this possibly spoilerific shot that I found at the CBR boards with the caveat that I do not know for certain if it is legit...

Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Spider-Man, Ms. Marvel, The Thing and Wolverine? Looks like the New Avengers to me.

It's official. It's from DisneyXD's facebook page

[Christopher]

Hmm...

Interesting that Spidey is in it, considering that this will be airing back-to-back with Ultimate Spider-Man. Do we know if the two shows will be in continuity with each other? I'm inclined to doubt it, since they have two different actors playing Nick Fury (Alex Désert in A:EMH, Chi McBride in USM). And Marvel doesn't have a problem putting two incompatible versions of Iron Man on the air at the same time (EMH and Armored Adventures). I know that EMH is considered to be in continuity with Wolverine and the X-Men, but otherwise Marvel doesn't seem to want the same level of shared continuity in its TV shows that it currently has in its movies.

[Turtletrekker]

Christopher wrote:

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Hmm...

Interesting that Spidey is in it, considering that this will be airing back-to-back with Ultimate Spider-Man. Do we know if the two shows will be in continuity with each other? I'm inclined to doubt it, since they have two different actors playing Nick Fury (Alex Désert in A:EMH, Chi McBride in USM). And Marvel doesn't have a problem putting two incompatible versions of Iron Man on the air at the same time (EMH and Armored Adventures). I know that EMH is considered to be in continuity with Wolverine and the X-Men, but otherwise Marvel doesn't seem to want the same level of shared continuity in its TV shows that it currently has in its movies.

I'm inclined to doubt that they are in same continuity not just because of Spidey, but also Iron Fist, as a teen version of Danny Rand will be a part of Ultimate Spider-Man. Unless USM takes place a few years before A:EMH...

[Christopher]

Turtletrekker wrote:

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I'm inclined to doubt that they are in same continuity not just because of Spidey, but also Iron Fist, as a teen version of Danny Rand will be a part of Ultimate Spider-Man. Unless USM takes place a few years before A:EMH...

That may well be the case.

I read an interview about USM where a producer said that the idea was that while EMH represents a mature team of accomplished heroes, USM is more about exploring how novice heroes get to that stage. I don't think the speaker literally meant that there was a direct continuity leading from USM to EMH, rather just that they explore two different stages of a superhero career and complement each other that way. But it's at least possible that they are linked.

[Praetor_Shinzon]

thought the first ep of Season 2 was a lot of fun. would have liked more from Doom, but the poker game and Tony/Reed interaction at the beginning was great.

[jep316]

I like the premiere of both new shows Spider-man and Avengers season2 though I could do without all the anime style cutaways on Spider-man and the little special features of the whole Marvel Universe block it just disrupts the action too much.

Also I don't think the series are conected there are too many difference,SM takes place in a version of the Ultimate Universe while Avengers is a variation of the Main Marvel Universe 616.

[Christopher]

So they're doing the Secret Invasion storyline, and so far we know of two Skrull impostors among the heroes. I suspected Sue as soon as Reed said he felt she was neglecting him for a change.

I've just been watching the '90s Fantastic Four cartoon on Netflix (it's hidden away under the listing for the '90s Iron Man series -- the streams actually contain the entire Marvel Action Hour package of both shows back-to-back, though only the IM episode is listed), so it's weird getting used to new voices for the FF. Still, Dee Bradley Baker strikes me as a pretty good choice for Reed. He's good at sounding professorial. (And is Fred Tatasciore still playing the Thing as he did in the show a few years back? Sounded like it. Which means he's playing both sides of the Thing-Hulk feud.)

I loved it that Janet had the fearlessness to point out to Dr. Doom's face that he's wearing a skirt.

jep316 wrote:

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Also I don't think the series are conected there are too many difference,SM takes place in a version of the Ultimate Universe while Avengers is a variation of the Main Marvel Universe 616.

Not quite. Despite its title, Ultimate Spider-Man is creating its own continuity which draws on elements of both the 616 and Ultimate universes combined with original elements as the creators see fit.

http://www.newsarama.com/tv/ultimate...gle-kelly.html

Nrama: Though Brian Michael Bendis is involved and the show starts with Peter in high school, like the Ultimate Spider-Man comic book, it looks like it's not strictly tied to that series — is it something of a mélange of different Spidey eras, all kind of working together?

Seagle: I think it's important to say — Brian Bendis works with us on the show, Paul Dini also — great contributors, but especially in that Brian let go of all that. He let us take the fun parts of Ultimate Spider-Man the comic book, but Ultimate Spider-Man the TV show is totally different. It's a completely new reinvention, in the way his was a reinvention of the comic.

Kelly: It's just taking what works from all the eras that we love, and that spirit Brian had of "anything goes;" just doing that in animation.

By the same token, Avengers, while drawing largely on 616, also incorporates some ideas from Ultimate, like a black Nick Fury. Pretty much all the Marvel screen adaptations these days draw liberally on both universes. There are a lot of Ultimate elements in the movies -- not just Fury, but the Hulk being an offshoot of the supersoldier program, Galactus being a swarm entity, Spider-Man's powers coming from a genetically engineered spider rather than an irradiated one, etc.

Which only makes sense, because the Ultimate comics and the movies/shows both have the same motivation to make changes, i.e. to update the stories and get away from some of the problems of the originals, like a lack of diversity, the treatment of radiation as magic, etc.

[Ian Keldon]

^It's too bad Marvel refuses to credit the audience with enough intelligance to handle having the real Nick Fury in a project for once.\

Nope, gotta spoon-feed the dunderheads their Samuel L Fury just so they "match" the movies...

[Christopher]

Ian Keldon wrote:

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^It's too bad Marvel refuses to credit the audience with enough intelligance to handle having the real Nick Fury in a project for once.\

You want intelligence? Here's one of the most intelligent things ever said:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." -- Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

The content of Nick Fury's character is the same regardless of his complexion or whether he has hair (and the version of Fury in Avengers: EMH and Wolverine and the X-Men is a mix of both versions, African-American but with a full head of hair and gray temples like the 616 version). And I think intelligent viewers would not find it desirable to perpetuate the lack of ethnic diversity in the '60s Marvel universe.

[Turtletrekker]

That was a lot of fun-- A good old-fashioned super-hero team-up, heavy on the "smash". The FF was spot-on, and I loved the interactions between Hulk and Thing. I am going to assume that we will be seeing Doom again as the "Secret Invasion" storyline progresses.

Did anyone else catch the "update" of the Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends Dr. Doom ep, "The Fantastic Mr. Frump" following the episode? High-larious!

[Admiral_Young]

Regarding Spider-Man...there is no shared continuity between this and "Ultimate Spider-Man" as far as I know and Spidey was teased as far back as last year's SDCC, I think it was mentioned by someone else in the original thread for the show as well. It looks like I'm going to have to start watching this show again!

[Edit_XYZ]

Christopher wrote:

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You want intelligence? Here's one of the most intelligent things ever said:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." -- Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

The content of Nick Fury's character is the same regardless of his complexion or whether he has hair (and the version of Fury in Avengers: EMH and Wolverine and the X-Men is a mix of both versions, African-American but with a full head of hair and gray temples like the 616 version). And I think intelligent viewers would not find it desirable to perpetuate the lack of ethnic diversity in the '60s Marvel universe.

You say this, but during the casting for the Avatar: The last airbender movie, you were throwing a fit on this very subforum because the actors chosen were caucasian and not the races from the animation series.

You throw stones while living in a glass house.

[Turtletrekker]

^Not sure what the correlation there is. The black Nick Fury is not a creation of the movies, it's from the "Ultimate" line of comics, from which the movies have borrowed very heavily, so it does come from the source material. Besides, there is really nothing intinsic about the modern Nick Fury that states he must be played by a white man. If they were doing the WW2 "Sgt. Fury" version of character, then race might be an issue, but as long as the character is well-written and portrayed, I wouldn't care what race of actor portrayed him in the modern context. Hell, one of the only good parts of the Daredevil movie was casting Michael Clarke Duncan as Wilson Fisk.

The Last Airbender, on the other hand is specifically portrayed as taking place in a culture with asian influences, asian names, and asian people. So the casting of caucasians in the starring roles is a bit more glaring in that instance, and was basically just pulled out of M. Night Shalayman's ass without any regard to the source material.

[Christopher]

Turtletrekker wrote:

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^Not sure what the correlation there is. The black Nick Fury is not a creation of the movies, it's from the "Ultimate" line of comics, from which the movies have borrowed very heavily, so it does come from the source material.

Right. It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy; the creators of the Ultimate comics wanted to base their version of Fury on Samuel L. Jackson, and as a big comics fan, he gave them the rights to use his likeness in exchange for the first crack at playing the character if he were ever in a movie (or something like that).

Besides, there is really nothing intinsic about the modern Nick Fury that states he must be played by a white man. If they were doing the WW2 "Sgt. Fury" version of character, then race might be an issue, but as long as the character is well-written and portrayed, I wouldn't care what race of actor portrayed him in the modern context.

Sure, in real life, an African-American wouldn't have been allowed in combat in WWII, but then, in real life, a soldier from WWII wouldn't have had his aging artificially slowed so he'd still be young and vigorous in the 2010s. So one shouldn't demand absolute realism anyway.

And there is precedent, going back to the very beginning of the Nick Fury character. The Howling Commandos were shown as an integrated unit including the African-American Gabe Jones from the very first issue of Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos in 1963. So in the Marvel Universe, the armed forces were integrated years sooner than they were in real life.

Hell, one of the only good parts of the Daredevil movie was casting Ving Rhames as Wilson Fisk.

Actually that was Michael Clarke Duncan.

Colorblind casting in superhero movies goes all the way back to Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Dent in Batman (1989). Lois & Clark cast Sherman Helmsley as the Toyman, not to mention the half-Japanese Dean Cain as Superman. Smallville had a black Pete Ross and J'onn J'onzz and a half-Chinese Lana Lang (well, the actress if not the character). The Middleman cast a Latina actress as Wendy Watson, who in the comics was a redhead who didn't speak a word of Spanish.

The Last Airbender, on the other hand is specifically portrayed as taking place in a culture with asian influences, asian names, and asian people. So the casting of caucasians in the starring roles is a bit more glaring in that instance, and was basically just pulled out of M. Night Shalayman's ass without any regard to the source material.

Actually I can somewhat forgive it there, since from what I read, they did sincerely try colorblind casting -- they opened it to candidates of any ethnicity, chose what they considered the best people for the lead roles, and then cast the other roles to match the leads' ethnicities. So we had a Caucasian Water Tribe but ethnically mixed Air Nomads, South Asian Fire Nation, and Asian/African Earth Kingdom. Still diverse, just differently so (and it would've become more so if there'd been sequels and Azula, Toph, etc. had come aboard). Although it's true that they would've probably had an easier time finding good Asian lead actors if they'd done their principal casting someplace other than Texas. And the actors they did cast weren't all that good, so I wonder if they really did make the best choices. It is possible there was some pressure from executives to cast white leads, but I think the worst Shyamalan deserves blame for is not pushing back hard enough against that pressure, or simply not picking very good actors. (Well, at least where the casting is concerned. The biggest thing he deserves blame for is thinking he was qualified to write the script himself.)

But really, if finding the most talented actor means changing the ethnicity of a character in an adaptation, so be it. Strict adherence to the source material shouldn't matter, because an adaptation is not supposed to be exactly like its source; it's a new work inspired by the source but telling the story in a new and distinct way. And the decisions about that work should be based on what's best for that work. So they can take you in a different direction from the original.