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Old March 13 2012, 03:08 PM   #16
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

Evil Twin wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
I just now found out that you need 4000 effective points to get the "best" ending and after a quick look at an earlier save it turns out I only have something like 3700. What did I do wrong!? I save the rachni queen *twice*, I saved the destiny ascension, rewrote the geth heretics and made them all individuals, I gave the quarrians back their home, cured the genophage...etc, etc. I have a hard time seeing how not being able to complete the Aria: Eclipse mission (due to a bug I might add) or complete the Kasumi mission (*another* bug) and a handful of sidequests I didn't know needed to be turned in before the Priority: Tuchanka mission.

Anyone know at what stage the points are taken into account? Is it before the final jump to Sol or can I load from the last Citadel autosave?
Come to think of it, how much of a difference does it make? I'm not sure I can be bothered to replay that whole sequence again just to see if things turn out *slightly* less crappy.
If all it takes is a few games of multiplayer to make up the 7.5% I need
You'll need to do a little multiplayer to get your EMS above 5000. Don't worry though, it doesn't really take that long. Maybe 2 hour or so to get your galactic readiness to about 75%, which should do the trick.
I also read on the wiki that you can buy war assets in the multiplayer as well, but I don't know how true it is.
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Old March 13 2012, 03:12 PM   #17
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

So possible reasons why all of a sudden Normandy is leaving the Relay and Why Shepard is in the rubble (Because it totally looks out of place):

There is another explanation. From the audio files people have extracted and posted on the BW forums, it appears that Shepard was originally supposed to end up back on Earth somehow, and the Normandy was supposed to get in a fight with Harbinger and be forced to run away through the mass relay. All that was cut from the ending for reasons unknown, along with a bunch of extra Anderson dialogue.
The most plausible explanation is that they simply got lazy and/or pressed for time at the end, rewrote the ending into its current form, but used the clips you mention (which became nonsensical after the revisions) because they didn't have time to render and record anything else.
It'd be nice to think they have some kind of master plan here, but IMO they just fucked up.
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Old March 13 2012, 06:22 PM   #18
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$



There's the extra Anderson stuff anyway.
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Old March 13 2012, 07:03 PM   #19
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

Evil Twin wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
I just now found out that you need 4000 effective points to get the "best" ending and after a quick look at an earlier save it turns out I only have something like 3700. What did I do wrong!? I save the rachni queen *twice*, I saved the destiny ascension, rewrote the geth heretics and made them all individuals, I gave the quarrians back their home, cured the genophage...etc, etc. I have a hard time seeing how not being able to complete the Aria: Eclipse mission (due to a bug I might add) or complete the Kasumi mission (*another* bug) and a handful of sidequests I didn't know needed to be turned in before the Priority: Tuchanka mission.

Anyone know at what stage the points are taken into account? Is it before the final jump to Sol or can I load from the last Citadel autosave?
Come to think of it, how much of a difference does it make? I'm not sure I can be bothered to replay that whole sequence again just to see if things turn out *slightly* less crappy.
If all it takes is a few games of multiplayer to make up the 7.5% I need
You'll need to do a little multiplayer to get your EMS above 5000. Don't worry though, it doesn't really take that long. Maybe 2 hour or so to get your galactic readiness to about 75%, which should do the trick.

Finally finished it myself after staying up late last night, and yeah, not terribly happy with the ending either. I chose the synthesis option which is probably the happiest, relatively speaking. I kind of wish they at least went for the Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal type ending, which had text descriptions of what happens to all your party members afterwards, and was very satisfying as a result. Aside from the ending however, I thought the game was fantastic. I was a bit doubtful about it at the start, with Earth, Mars, and the limited Citadel, but once you finish the Turian mission the game really opens up and becomes great. So many wonderful character moments if you're thorough about talking to everyone on the Normandy after every mission, and lots of great encounters on the Citadel as well.
Didn't take long at all, just two bronze missions with location & enemies set to "unknown" and it was enough to earn 9% extra. Good god I was useless though! I miss my more capable MP characters from the demo.

Anyway, I did that, checked in a pre-London save to make sure the points were over the 4000 mark then loaded the Citadel autosave. No change as far as I can see, though this time I chose the "control" ending so that might have affected things.

On another note, the dark energy thing (or lack thereof) made me wonder at what else seemed oddly absent.
So, in no particular order: -

- Did we ever see any dragons teeth, anywhere in the game? Even before that 'Take Back Earth' trailer I fully expected to see Vlad the Impaler style fields of those things but I don't think I spotted even one.

- What happened to Parasini? From her appearance in ME2 I'd have expected some follow up. Preferably a cameo, but an email at least? On a similar note, Shiala and Rana get reduced to mere mention; the former leading a commando team as a war asset, the latter going nuts and killing herself off screen.

- Wasn't there supposed to be a story behind that mech dog? All I got was an email from the engineer that accidentally left it behind.

- Perhaps the most glaring omission; in the 'From Ashes' DLC, so we're on Eden Prime, but where the hell were the damn gas bags!

Finally, what was the point of that embedded reporter? You only ever give two interviews and next to no conversation outside of that (though I gather she was a romance option.) Also, if they wanted to have such a character then why create a new one voiced by some obscure internet journalist? Why not reuse Emily Wong, or hell, just for kicks why not al-Jilani? We had two perfectly viable journalist characters already established, so why create a new one and then do next to nothing with her?
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Old March 13 2012, 10:39 PM   #20
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

This was from BSN, it is response to someone complaining about people complaining about the game. Its a long read, but it is good.

DEUS EX MACHINA:

You're getting your literary devices mixed up. The Crucible is not deus ex machina, it is a MacGuffin. It's largely irrelevant except as a plot device. It is the exhaust port on the Death Star.

The narrative of ME3 is not about finding the Crucible, it is about building the greatest alliance ever seen in the galaxy (which the Crucible, as a plot device, allows to happen).

Why the Catalyst AI and his Monty Hall spiel of the Adjust Hue/Saturation is a deus ex machina is that it is the resolution to the narrative. The fact that he is also literally a "god from the machine" is irrelevant, albeit ironic. He is a deus ex machina in the literary sense, i.e. a handwaved contrivance that shows up out of the blue to quickly whisk away all the dangling story threads, and to abruptly end the story.

This is abysmal writing. This is abysmal game design; a Pick Your Own Adventure book where all choices take you to the same final chapter. It is counter to everything this game is. And what is this game?

In a recent Extra Credits, Portnow discussed core elements of a game. The Mass Effect series is really not a third person shooter. It is also really not a roll-the-dice-and-level-up CRPG. Mass Effect is, at its core, interactive fiction. All the memorable moments in these games take place in cutscenes that play out in myriad ways based on prior choices. You are role-playing in the most literal sense of crafting a character's personality based on your choices. The climax of Mass Effect 2 was not shooting the Human Reaper in the eye, the climax of Mass Effect 2 were the cutscenes that played and showed the results of your actions. Did you defy TIM? Did your crewmates survive? If your choices were poor enough, you could defeat the final boss, only to make a desperate leap towards the Normandy with no one to catch you.

The desperate leap in Mass Effect 3 is your dash towards the Beam. The only input that matters at all past this point is the encounter with TIM. That encounter is true to Mass Effect, and honors your previous choices, and provides closure for the secondary antagonist.

But for the main antagonist (Reapers), nothing you did matters. You are given three arbitrary choices to solve a problem that, depending on your actions, may be proven to be a false dilemma in the first place. If you saved both the Quarians and the Geth, witnessed Legion's messianic sacrifice, and humanized EDI - the Catalyst's claim of organic/synthetic conflict being unavoidable is patently false.

The Catalyst AI is completely incongruous with the narrative and the themes of the game. It shows up, provides a complete strawman of a conflict, and then offers three vapid, plot-hole ridden resolutions to this conflict, which abruptly end the narrative in a blinding flash of Space Magic (pick your color!).

CHOICES DON'T MATTER

Again, you're missing the point. No one is complaining about the preceding 30 hours of gameplay. Choices did seem to matter. Your treatment of the Rachni queen from two games ago ended up gaining you a seemingly valuable ally. Saving Wrex can gain a hopeful future for the Krogan. Your choices regarding Legion and the Migrant Fleet in ME2 have incredibly strong consequences in the seeming conclusion of the Geth/Quarian storyline. This is why we loved the game up to the ending.

And the ending completely demolished all of it, and made it completely illusory. Who gives a **** if you saved the Rachni? They just end up giving you Space Points and don't affect your ending at all. Who gives a **** if the Quarians or Geth or both survived? They're all dead anyway. Who cares if you cured the genophage and saved the one leader who could lead the Krogan into a less brutish, more hopeful future? He's either trapped on earth or dead, and the radioactive husk that is Tuchanka cannot sustain their race without supplies anyway.

And even more egregiously, the choices you made in the development of YOUR Shepard don't matter. She acts EXACTLY the same when facing the ultimate antagonist regardless of whether she's a Space Racist Renegade or Never Surrender Paragon or whatever your Shepard actually is, and what (insert pronoun) stands for.

You accept Space Hitler's premise without argument, and dejectedly pick one of the three Slightly Less Turning Everyone Into Paste final solutions he has to offer.

How does it matter in the slightest that I've done the frickin' impossible and united the Geth and the Quarians into a hopeful future, shown that we need not fear synthetic life, seen a nascent artificial sentience freely decide to set "Love and compassion" as their main motivation, and fought for the reactionary, bleak idea of "AI will always rebel" to be proven wrong? Space Hitler shows up, says "AI will always rebel, here are drastic fixes to this undeniable problem". And I go "yessuh"?

WHY IS EVERYTHING SO SAD

It's not sad. You are being incredibly myopic and dismissive of our experiences by reducing it to "y every1 has 2 diezorz?". The ending of the story is not actually sad, it's just anticlimactic, contrived, incongruous, and ridden with plot holes.

The part that's sad and what's tearing me apart is that this is not a case of people writing themselves into a corner. This is not a case of glorified hacks like Ronald D. Moore or Cuse/Lindelof making **** up as they go along, to find themselves at the end with no way to tie all the crap together in a cathartic way.

This is a beautifully written game, for the majority of the experience. Bioware has bona fide talent within their ranks. And the story, up to the very end, is redeemable in dozens of ways. Even the contrived, out-of-the-blue Star Child could be made into an interesting character by presenting it as a shackled AI who was given a specific, limited goal born of fear (stop AI from wiping out organic life forever), and it arrived at the grotesque solution of Reapers not because AI is evil, but the constraints never allow it to look past the false dilemma it's attempting to solve.

Most importantly, this is not a TV show or a movie. This narrative is, by design, told in a unique medium which is NOT doomed to give us a singular ending. Our Shepards can be varied, yes, but there is a finite amount of paradigms that lead you to the end, and they could all have a cathartic, poignant, and persistent ending. Let the Renegades ascend to rule the galaxy. Let the Paragons defeat primitive fear and xenophobia.

I do not care if the Relays have to go down, but don't do it in such a thoughtless way as to destroy everything meaningful I accomplished. I do not care if my Shepard dies. In fact, I expected her to go down in a blaze of glory, in the greatest battle that shall ever be fought, for the most meaningful (to her) victory a soldier could ever earn. She did not get this. I did not get this.

TENS OF THOUSANDS of people didn't get this. We are not asking for a Disney ending. We are not asking for a dance party with Ewoks. We are just asking for our Big Damn Heroes to go out on their own terms, win or lose.
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Old March 13 2012, 11:07 PM   #21
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

Some odd and/or interesting tweets from the official Mass Effect feed on Twitter:

Probably a good thing to be cautious of. [re: how could Ashley be on the Normandy if she was with Shepard]

We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter.

There are a number of different ways the state of the galaxy can be left in. You decide that. Your decision matter.

Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different.

We can't saaaaay! [re: is that really how Shepard ends?]

Last edited by PsychoPere; March 13 2012 at 11:34 PM. Reason: Added another item to the quote box.
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Old March 13 2012, 11:44 PM   #22
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

If this in regards to another ending dlc, the only waylaying it's okay is if it is free
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Old March 14 2012, 12:07 AM   #23
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

Yeah, if they're intentionally holding back the "real" ending for a DLC they intend to charge for, that'd just be a grotesquely mercenary thing to do, to say nothing of being a very cruel joke. Can you imagine if J.K. Rowling had held back the "real" final chapter of 'Deathly Hallows'? People would have rioted.

I think the leading theory is that they ran out of time and threw this hodge-podge together out of whatever elements of the intended ending had already been done.

Good read BTW. I agree with just about everything that guy wrote. It's not because the ending was sad or because <insert name here> died, it's because it's not an end to the story we thought was being told. Hell, I mean at least the end of 'Matrix Revolutions' made sense in the context of the film and it was something they were building up to (rightly or wrongly) from the very beginning. ME3's ending feels like the drunken gatecrasher from a totally different game.

You know what annoys me the most though? This ending actually has me *complaining* about what's probably the best piece of interactive storytelling of all time. I didn't mind the lack of side missions. I didn't mind the mostly linear structure. I was too engrossed and invested to care. I'm not usually an emotional person (I'm downright callous at times) but I don't mind admitting this game had me close to tears on no less than four occasions. At the other end of the spectrum, I've lost count of the number of times I laughed out loud or sat through a whole mission grinning like an idiot (especially Grissom Academy!) This is still a *phenomenal* game and it's only because I enjoyed it so much that the ending felt like such a betrayal.
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Old March 14 2012, 01:09 AM   #24
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

Here's the FemShep version of the cut Anderson ending dialog, for anyone interested:
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Old March 14 2012, 02:35 AM   #25
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

On the side of the hallucination camp, there is the evidence of the trees. These trees weren't on the path to the conduit. They appear after Shepard regains consciousness. If this is the case, that everything from the conduit to Shepard coming alive in the best ending is a hallucination, and, then we cut to the stargazer scene, we don't know how Shepard defeated the Reapers.

Adding fuel to this fire is the information from the Codex. In "Desperate Measures", it is stated that scientists considered destroying the mass relays. However, they voted against this measure as it could destroy a system with fatal radiation and any garden world in that system would be rendered inhabitable. If a garden world did survive, the inhabitants would be cut off from the galaxy. In the three endings, we see mass relays exploding and, with each relay exploding, we see shockwaves that extend thousands of light years. It would seem that every life in the galaxy would go extinct, if we accept that the ending is not a hallucination. I don't accept this, so I dismiss what is shown.

Finally, did you know that everyone died on the Citadel? According to Mac Waters, the lead writer, when the Reapers captured the Citadel, they exterminated everyone. So, what was the reason for upgrading the Citadel's defenses if they meant nothing?

For myself, not seeing these things - the fall of the Citadel and the victory of Shepard - make me dislike this game very much. These are pivotal moments which have been pushed offscreen.

A great many people are angered by the ending of this game. On Amazon, the game has two and a half stars, with the majority of people voting this game poor. On Metacritic, the game has a rating of 4.9 (which is poor) with 338 people rating this game very badly.
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Old March 14 2012, 02:41 AM   #26
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

PsychoPere wrote: View Post
Some odd and/or interesting tweets from the official Mass Effect feed on Twitter:

Probably a good thing to be cautious of. [re: how could Ashley be on the Normandy if she was with Shepard]

We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter.

There are a number of different ways the state of the galaxy can be left in. You decide that. Your decision matter.

Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different.

We can't saaaaay! [re: is that really how Shepard ends?]

This could all be a giant load of BS on the part of Bioware........BUT......and maybe I'm a "Biodrone" for saying it, It gives me hope. And right now......that just may be enough...
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Old March 14 2012, 02:47 AM   #27
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

throwback wrote: View Post
Finally, did you know that everyone died on the Citadel? According to Mac Waters, the lead writer, when the Reapers captured the Citadel, they exterminated everyone. So, what was the reason for upgrading the Citadel's defenses if they meant nothing?
That's not even the worst thing about the Reapers capturing the Citadel. If they captured it, why bother towing it all the way to the Sol system? With the Citadel, the Reapers can control the entire mass relay network. They could have shut down all of the mass relays in the galaxy, which would have effectively killed the organic resistance. Why didn't they do this?
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Old March 14 2012, 03:03 AM   #28
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

firehawk12 wrote: View Post
Here's the FemShep version of the cut Anderson ending dialog, for anyone interested:
Oh, so that's dialog that was actually cut? It's not just the 4000 EMS ending?

Skywalker wrote: View Post
If they captured it, why bother towing it all the way to the Sol system? With the Citadel, the Reapers can control the entire mass relay network. They could have shut down all of the mass relays in the galaxy, which would have effectively killed the organic resistance. Why didn't they do this?
Possessing the Citadel alone isn't enough for control, or else Council space would've had control long ago. (And we know they didn't, or the location of the Mu Relay wouldn't have been lost in ME1.)

Either the Crucible or the active intervention of the Catalyst (I assume the latter, and that the Crucible was just a macguffin...) is necessary for the mass relay network to be controlled.

So given that the Reapers can't control it themselves, towing it to a system with a crapton of Reaper ships to keep the pesky organics from getting at it is their best bet.
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Old March 14 2012, 03:04 AM   #29
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

It's not an if. It happened. Commander Shepard, when on the Cronus Station, is informed of this event.

I don't think we are ever given a reason why the Reapers chose to move the Citadel to Earth. For myself, I see the Earth as a write-off. The Prothean VI says that the Reapers are in the final process of harvesting Earth, and when we consider the fate of other worlds attacked by these machines, any life above that of bacterium is destroyed. In many cases, the destruction of so many animals creates conditions where the oxygen level of the world increases, and massive firestorms erupt extinguishing what life remains. So, Earth is a burnt out husk unsuitable for long-term viability for a sapient species.

The final analysis - the Citadel fell, many lives were lost for the recapture of a dead world, Shepard failed in his or her initial attempt to board the Citadel, the Illusive Man survived, and the Crucible was never used.
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Old March 14 2012, 03:43 AM   #30
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Re: Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

ATimson wrote: View Post
Skywalker wrote: View Post
If they captured it, why bother towing it all the way to the Sol system? With the Citadel, the Reapers can control the entire mass relay network. They could have shut down all of the mass relays in the galaxy, which would have effectively killed the organic resistance. Why didn't they do this?
Possessing the Citadel alone isn't enough for control, or else Council space would've had control long ago. (And we know they didn't, or the location of the Mu Relay wouldn't have been lost in ME1.)

Either the Crucible or the active intervention of the Catalyst (I assume the latter, and that the Crucible was just a macguffin...) is necessary for the mass relay network to be controlled.

So given that the Reapers can't control it themselves, towing it to a system with a crapton of Reaper ships to keep the pesky organics from getting at it is their best bet.
The Citadel controls the relay network, if you know how to do so. This was the whole crux of ME1's plot: Saren and Sovereign were seeking the Conduit so that they could access the Citadel, take control of the relays, and bring the Reapers back from dark space. The Council didn't control the relay network because they never bothered to learn how the Citadel or the relays worked; they were content to just use the technology left behind for them. Since the Catalyst controlled the Reapers, as soon as they recaptured the Citadel, it should have had them shut down the relays and proceed to harvest the galaxy like in every other cycle.
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